RealGM

Who was better when you watched them play?

Gregg Popovich: "Nikola Jokic Is A 7-Foot Larry Bird Type Guy... It's Incredible."

Jokic

Horse guy.

Bird

Bird for me. He had the most insane decision making speed I've ever seen. It's like he was constantly playing one step ahead of everyone else on the court.

Jokic has amazing skill and IQ, but I don't have as many "what just happened" moments as I did with Bird.

Bird was a little scarier than Jokic.

Bird, if for no other reason than he applied his genius on both sides better. You have to watch him at all times.

Bird. He's a bit better than Jokic pretty much everywhere except rebounding. And Bird was still an excellent rebounder.

Jokic. i dont find Bird as effective a offensive player as some other greats including Jokic when given the ball and asked to beat guys 1 on 1 off the dribble.

He needed a lot of moving without the ball and going through screens to create his scoring.

Defensively they're both not the fleetest of feet at that end.

real time test, bird. analyzed in slo-mo, jokic.

Regular season, comparable. Playoffs, easily Jokic

Tim Kempton wrote:Bird. He's a bit better than Jokic pretty much everywhere except rebounding. And Bird was still an excellent rebounder.

There is no world where Bird was a better offensive player than Jokic.

theforumblue wrote:real time test, bird. analyzed in slo-mo, jokic.

Exactly! Bird in his prime was farily athletic and flashy. He looked very impressive and made whatever he was doing look easy. Jokic has had a lot of "Quiet" games where all of a sudden you look at the stat sheet and he's got like 22-12-15 while Jamal/MPJ/Gordon are on fire. Overall, Jokic is more subtle.

Feel Jokic peaked higher.

Jokic is more efficient by a good margin, especially in the playoffs where Bird's efficiency dropped in some years. Both are ATG passers, but Jokic has him beat in that department as well. Jokic is better on offense.

Fans tend to go with older players in these debates, but people will appreciate Jokic more once he is gone.

It’s Jokic and looks like people truly undervalue the lack of talent in the NBA had compared to now. Bird played with 4 HOFer’s. Also, still love Bird and Magic without them the league would’ve went bankrupt.

2011 Dirk was one of the most dominant playoff runs i've had the privilege of watching.

2023 Jokic was like if 2011 Dirk also averaged nearly 10 assists a game on top of putting up 30ppg on incredible efficiency. I think people have such a "what have you done for me lately" mentality when it comes to sports that everyone forgot how absolutely absurd it is to average a near 30 point triple double en route to a championship...while shooting 46% from deep. The only two guys I can definitively say peaked higher than 2023 Jokic are MJ and LeBron.

If not for Murray having a HORRIFIC playoffs (averaged more shot attempts than points!!!) the nuggets would've repeated.

MrBigShot wrote:2011 Dirk was one of the most dominant playoff runs i've had the privilege of watching.

2023 Jokic was like if 2011 Dirk also averaged nearly 10 assists a game on top of putting up 30ppg on incredible efficiency. I think people have such a "what have you done for me lately" mentality when it comes to sports that everyone forgot how absolutely absurd it is to average a near 30 point triple double en route to a championship...while shooting 46% from deep. The only two guys I can definitively say peaked higher than 2023 Jokic are MJ and LeBron.

If not for Murray having a HORRIFIC playoffs (averaged more shot attempts than points!!!) the nuggets would've repeated.

1st rnd POR 48Wins vs MIN 42 wins
2nd rnd LAL 57 wins (2010 Champions) vs PHO 45 wins
3rd rnd OKC 55wins (2012 Finalist) vs LAL 43 wins
Finals MIA 58wins (2012 Champions) vs MIA 44 wins

DAL w/o Dirk in PO -6.6nrtg
DEN w/o Jokic in PO +7.0nrtg

Murray 26pts 7ast 47/40/93 +2.9nrtg w/o Jokic

Kidd w/o Dirk -9.0nrtg
Terry w/o Dirk -5.3nrtg
Marion w/o Dirk -6.8nrtg

This is nothing like Dirk apart indv stats. What did Dirk in 2011, it is one in life time.

Eye test is such a poor way to analyse a player. Sure it can be part of the analysis but if it's a majority weight then yikes.

A good handful of players 'look' better than both, both in replays and full games.

Hell Dirk in his Prime looked like an Offense God to me but with context there was clearly more to it that just how it looked.

Larry Bird (Prime)