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In recent years, the NBA G-League has been playing at the FIBA Intercontinental Cup, which is the World Basketball Club Championship. Originally, they would send the league champions from G-League, then they sent the G-League Ignite last year, and for this year's tournament, they used a select team of pro free agents. Of course, none of the G-League teams have won the Intercontinental Cup. The Intercontinental Cup no longer includes EuroLeague teams (teams from Europe's best league), at least for the time being, because FIBA, which organizes the Intercontinental Cup, and EuroLeague, got in a war, and FIBA banned EuroLeague clubs.

So it's not like the G-League teams even have EuroLeague teams as competition. It's just teams from the 3rd level European league, the FIBA Basketball Champions League, not from Europe's best league. And also the teams from Africa, Latin America, Asia, and Australia. And all of those other teams can only send their league champions. They are not allowed to send select teams, like the G-League can. For example, a select team from Australia's league, or from the European BCL, would be way better than their club champions are. So FIBA even allows the G-League to have a built-in advantage at the tournament.

But it's always amazing when these Intercontinental Cups happen, how the G-League teams in every tournament, will have some player or coach making a statement about how the G-League is the second best league in the world, and how they will prove that or whatever at the tournament. And how during some of the G-League team's games, during timeouts, you can actually hear players and coaches talking about how the G-League is the second best league in the world, and how they should be able to beat "all of these other teams". And they will also call the European teams at the tournament, "EuroLeague teams", even though they are not actually playing against EuroLeague teams.

This is really something, that even professional players and coaches, and guys that have even played in the NBA, etc., actually could think something so truly absurd and ridiculous. All of these international leagues are very clearly better than the NBA G-League:

NBA (technically international because it has a team from Canada)
EuroLeague
EuroCup
FIBA Basketball Champions League (BCL)
ABA (Adriatic League)
NBL (Australian League, technically international because it as a team from New Zealand)
FIBA Americas Basketball Champions League (Americas BCL)

And if we add national domestic leagues, then all of these leagues are also better than the NBA G-League:

ACB (Spanish League)
GBL (Greek League)
BSL (Turkish League)
LBA (Italian League)
Pro A (French League)
BBL (German League)
BPL (Israeli League)
VTB (Russian League)
LKL (Lithuanian League)
PLK (Polish League)
LNB (Argentine League)
NBB (Brazilian League)

So basically, the NBA G-League is in the best case scenario, the 20th best basketball league in the world. Yet, there are always these players and coaches claiming it's the 2nd best league in the world, every year at the Intercontinental Cup. And even though the G-League teams lose at every Intercontinental Cup, the very next year, they still seem to believe the G-League is the world's 2nd best league.

Such a level of complete and total disregard and lack of awareness, about any basketball that exists outside of the USA, among actual pro players and coaches is just ridiculous.

Here is just the most recent example, for this 2024 FIBA Intercontinental Cup tournament.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fiba/fiba-intercontinental-cup/1715045/juan-toscanco-anderson-i-believe-the-g-league-is-the-second-best-league-in-the-world-and-we-want-to-show-that/

Juan Toscano-Anderson wants to show that the “G League is the second-best league in the world”

The former NBA champion with the Warriors has thrown the gauntlet to the world

“We want to be aggressive and make a statement. I believe the G League is the second-best league in the world, and we want to show that.”

“I've done played all over the world. G-League is the second best league in the world. We talented. We've just got to limit our turnovers, play together, play with high energy. Let's do it brothers.
Together on three, 1, 2, 3, TOGETHER!”

Video of Juan Toscano-Anderson during a timeout, talking about the Spanish ACB league, and also "the EuroLeague".



Juan Toscano-Anderson:

“Every single one of us [N word], we all are better than this [S word]. Our, our dream is not to play [F word] ACB. Our dream is not to play [F word] EuroLeague [Malaga isn't even a EuroLeague team] . Our dream is to play in the [F word] National Basketball Association [N word]. To make millions, and hundreds of millions of dollars. This [S word] that they're [Team from Europe's 3rd level league] doing to us, is unbearable. It's unacceptable. We've got to change the tide now.””

Keep in mind that Unicaja Malaga, the Spanish team that the G-League United select team was playing against, isn't even a EuroLeague team. They don't even play in the European top tier level EuroLeague at all. They play in the FIBA European Champions League, which is a lower level third tier level competition in Europe.

Keep fighting against windmills man. No one knowledgeable thinks that, G league guys transfer to other leagues often, we see and sense what the level is. I have seen Toscano wanted to ''prove'' G league is second best league in the world, but thats just a guy from G league saying that, I mean it is dumb take, but who cares a guy from a league thinks his league is good, its not a serious debate, these threads are so incredibly cringy to me, I feel so embarrassed any time I see one. Yes, Unicaja beat G league team, they were the favorites to do that, you really sit on your hands before this game, did you?

Mirotic12 wrote:
Keep in mind that Unicaja Malaga, the Spanish team that the G-League United was playing against, isn't even a EuroLeague team. They don't even play in the EuroLeague at all. They play in the FIBA European Champions League, which is a lower level second or third competition.

You can do better than that, Miro. Baskonia also plays in the Euroleague and even made the Euroleague playoffs, yet they weren't even good enough to make the Spanish league playoffs, while Malaga finished 1st in the Spanish regular season standings. Malaga then lost their best of 5 semi final series 3-2. Meanwhile Baskonia, the Euroleague team, didn't come close to achieving any of that.

Everyone who follows European basketball knows that the Euroleague doesn't include the best teams in Europe exclusively. That's why teams like ASVEL and Berlin are there, while Malaga or Gran Canaria (mind you, they declined the opportunity to play for financial reasons) aren't. So using Malaga to prove your points is deliberately disingenuous.

But regarding the premise of the thread, the G-League is nowhere close to being the 2nd best league in the world.

Edit: Baskonia was actually closer to relegation than they were to achieving Malaga's regular season wins. Reminds me of when Scalabrine said, "I'm closer to the Lebron than you are to me." Honestly, no need to pick Malaga for your thread. They're an excellent team.

Yeah I don't think a roster full of G-league all-stars would have even medaled at the Olympics. The world has caught up.

OP you right about G League. No doubt about it.

Only thing I’ll say: I feel like all the attempted hype for the G-League died when Scoot went from “Wemby’s rival” to one of the worst high profile rookies we’ve ever seen

The entire concept of the “G League instead of College” was that it would be better preparation for the NBA, but if that were true it shouldn’t have been possible to spent a year in the G League without red flags showing up. The G League seems to have been more interested in promoting Scott than alerting him to the things he desperately needed to improve.


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lambchop wrote:

Mirotic12 wrote:
Keep in mind that Unicaja Malaga, the Spanish team that the G-League United was playing against, isn't even a EuroLeague team. They don't even play in the EuroLeague at all. They play in the FIBA European Champions League, which is a lower level second or third competition.

You can do better than that, Miro. Baskonia also plays in the Euroleague and even made the Euroleague playoffs, yet they weren't even good enough to make the Spanish league playoffs, while Malaga finished 1st in the Spanish regular season standings. Malaga then lost their best of 5 semi final series 3-2. Meanwhile Baskonia, the Euroleague team, didn't come close to achieving any of that.

Everyone who follows European basketball knows that the Euroleague doesn't include the best teams in Europe exclusively. That's why teams like ASVEL and Berlin are there, while Malaga or Gran Canaria (mind you, they declined the opportunity to play for financial reasons) aren't. So using Malaga to prove your points is deliberately disingenuous.

But regarding the premise of the thread, the G-League is nowhere close to being the 2nd best league in the world.

Just look at the budgets of the EuroLeague champions (Panathinaikos) and the FIBA BCL champions (Malaga).

Malaga's budget = €14 million euros
Panathinaikos' budget = €40 million euros

Panathinaikos' budget is almost triple the amount of Malaga's budget. These two teams are not even remotely comparable talent and roster wise. Not even in the same discussion at all.

Look at the rosters of these two teams:

Malaga's roster (FIBA Champions League champions):

PG Kendrick Perry / Alberto Diaz
SG Tyson Carter / Tyler Kalinoski
SF Kameron Taylor / Nihad Djedovic / Melvin Ejim / Jonathan Barreiro
PF Dylan Osetkowski / Killian Tillie / Tyson Perez
C Olek Balcerowski / David Kravish / Yankuba Sima

That's a €14 million euros budget. That kind of budget gets exactly what Malaga's team is. A team that would stand zero chance of making the EuroLeague playoffs. Maybe just Perry and Osetkowski would be OK second line players (backups in NBA terminology) at their positions for EuroLeague.

Panathinaikos' roster (EuroLeague champions):

PG Kostas Sloukas / Lorenzo Brown / Dimitris Moraitis
SG Kendrick Nunn / Jerian Grant / Panos Kalaitzakis
SF Cedi Osman / Marius Gigonis / Ioannis Papapetrou
PF Dinos Mitoglou / Juancho Hernangomez / Alexandros Samodurov
C Mathias Lessort / Omer Yurtseven / Kostas Antetokounmpo

That's a €40 million euros budget. That kind of budget gets you one of the best rosters in EuroLeague.

Keep in mind that those bad EuroLeague teams you mentioned, like ASVEL and Baskonia, have bigger budgets than €14 million euros. ASVEL's budget is €25 million euros. Baskonia's budget is €16 million euros. Even the smallest budget in EuroLeague (Zalgiris) is higher than Malaga's budget, at €15 million euros.

As far as Gran Canaria is concerned, no way in the world are they as good as any team in the EuroLeague. That's just an average level EuroCup team. They didn't even make it past the top 12 stage of the second tier level EuroCup. They would have been destroyed in the EuroLeague, where every team is better than they are.

Panos Kalaitzakis and Ioannis Papapetrou are third at their positions (SG and SF) on Panathinaikos. They are both better players than any wing on Malaga. Olek Balcerowski was actually Panathinaikos' third center last season. Malaga signed him to be their first center for this season.

I seriously doubt if Malaga could win a single game against Panathinaikos in a playoff series. There is simply no comparison at all whatsoever between the level of those two teams. Panathinaikos is much better, much more talented, and much deeper of a team than Malaga is. This is not debatable at all, not even in the least slightest bit. There isn't even a single player on Malaga's roster that would make the 10 man main rotation of Panathinaikos. Not one guy on Malaga's whole roster is as good as any player in Panathinaikos' 10 man rotation.

So the G-League United select team was playing against way worse competition than they would have been playing against, if it was the EuroLeague champs (Panathinaikos) at the Intercontinental Cup, instead of the FIBA BCL champs (Malaga).

The G-League United select team lost to Malaga by 15 points. There is no way they would play Panathinaikos to within 15 points. It would be at least a 30 point blowout.

Doctor MJ wrote:OP you right about G League. No doubt about it.

Only thing I’ll say: I feel like all the attempted hype for the G-League died when Scoot went from “Wemby’s rival” to one of the worst high profile rookies we’ve ever seen

The entire concept of the “G League instead of College” was that it would be better preparation for the NBA, but if that were true it shouldn’t have been possible to spent a year in the G League without red flags showing up. The G League seems to have been more interested in promoting Scott than alerting him to the things he desperately needed to improve.


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G League instead of College IMO requires the NBA letting teams draft like 18 year olds and make them play a year in the G League on a teams farm team before coming up the next year. Hell, maybe even let them draft 16 or 17 year olds.

But this weird they play on a team with other prospects is just weird. For the G League to work as they seemingly tried to requiers fundamental changes to it

YogurtProducer wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:OP you right about G League. No doubt about it.

Only thing I’ll say: I feel like all the attempted hype for the G-League died when Scoot went from “Wemby’s rival” to one of the worst high profile rookies we’ve ever seen

The entire concept of the “G League instead of College” was that it would be better preparation for the NBA, but if that were true it shouldn’t have been possible to spent a year in the G League without red flags showing up. The G League seems to have been more interested in promoting Scott than alerting him to the things he desperately needed to improve.


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G League instead of College IMO requires the NBA letting teams draft like 18 year olds and make them play a year in the G League on a teams farm team before coming up the next year. Hell, maybe even let them draft 16 or 17 year olds.

But this weird they play on a team with other prospects is just weird. For the G League to work as they seemingly tried to requiers fundamental changes to it

Keen insight.

Yeah, superficially the idea of having a bunch of young guys on one team makes sense - NBA teams rebuild like that.

But if you only have the young guys together for one year, during which they are mostly focused on getting drafted, you're talking about taking a bunch of (likely) individualistic amateurs and surrounding them with other individualistic amateurs rather than getting them used to playing with true pros who can show them the ropes.

Whether the idea came from NBA marketing rather than real basketball people or not, it clearly got implemented as a place where guys could continue to get hype for another year without developing their game in an NBA-like team context. Utterly destructive idea.

I say this as a guy who previously said that I thought the G League could end up becoming the preferred place for mega-prospects over college. Why did I think that? Because spending a year playing college rules (and thus college tactics) is counterproductive to a player whose goal is the NBA. I believe it's very much possible for an NBA minor league to do a better job, but the G League Ignite was so poorly done that it may well protect college programs from such competition indefinitely.

One further thought getting into the Wemby vs Scoot situation:

It would be interesting to know how things would have played out if Wemby didn't exist.

The NBA clearly saw the opportunity to get people curious about Wemby to pay attention to Scoot trying to do a Bird/Magic or LeBron/Melo type thing. Maybe without Wemby they wouldn't have gone all in on Scoot hype, and Scoot would have had a healthier context for him recognize his crippling flaws and correct them before he got to the NBA. Maybe not of course - maybe the NBA was already locked in on Scoot as their "generational product" and would have done all the same stuff but with Scoot having a serious shot at being drafted #1, but the NBA clearly did run that "great future rivalry" playbook here, and it did Scoot no favors.

(ftr, I always said the LeBron/Melo rivalry was silly too. All the scouts knew that Melo's only chance to be a rival to LeBron was if LeBron was a major disappointment. Nevertheless, the NBA very much hyped the rivalry, and Melo was good enough that it didn't immediately lead to people laughing at the comparison, thus further cementing Melo as a basketball celebrity considerably bigger than his actual talent.)

European sports media and players are not taking too kindly to Toscano-Anderson's comments about European basketball.

https://basketnews.com/news-211691-juan-toscano-anderson-throws-disrespect-on-euroleague-and-liga-acb.html

Juan Toscano-Anderson harshly speaks out against EuroLeague: 'Not our dream'

Juan Toscano-Anderson was very upset with the way G League United played, and in an attempt to motivate his teammates, he had some harsh words for the EuroLeague, claiming, "It's not their dream."

G League United was beaten by Unicaja Malaga 75-60 in today's FIBA Intercontinental Cup final, and Juan Toscano-Anderson was fed up with his team's effort.

During a time-out in the 3rd quarter, Toscano-Anderson started a rant, insulting both Liga ACB and Euroleague.

"Our dream is not to play in the ACB, our dream is not to play in the f-ing Euroleague, our dream is to play in the NBA and make millions of dollars; what they are doing now is unacceptable."

It's also worth mentioning that Unicaja plays in the FIBA Basketball Champions League, which is the 3rd-best competition in European basketball after the EuroLeague and EuroCup.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/fiba/fiba-intercontinental-cup/1715942/mvp-osetkowski-responds-to-toscano-anderson-opinions-are-like-a-holes/

MVP Osetkowski responds to Toscano-Anderson: “Opinions are like a-holes”

Dylan Osetkowski had a great tournament and claimed MVP honors in Singapore. After the final match, he took the opportunity to comment on Juan Toscano-Anderson’s statement that the “G League is the second-best league in the world.”

The former NBA champion and one of the leaders of G League United went even further, trying to motivate his teammates during the final.

“Our dream is not to play F… ACB, not to play F… EuroLeague… This **** they are doing to us is unacceptable,” Toscano-Anderson said during a timeout.

Osetkowski then responded.

“I heard a saying—and excuse my French—but opinions are like a-holes, everybody has an opinion. So, he’s able to have his own opinion. We’re able to have our own opinion. You can have your own opinion that maybe Singapore has the best basketball or second-best basketball in the world.”

I will not let this slander against the G-League stand!

Just kidding, who gives a flying **** about the G-League.

On another note...I love living in a reality where a team called the Tasmania JackJumpers exists.

All this because what some end of the bench scrub Tuscano said? Hah yikes. Who cares what he said man. I have literally never heard of anyone else saying anything about G league being the 2nd best in the world lol. Most folks here in the US don’t give a flying f*ck about the G league

Doctor MJ wrote:OP you right about G League. No doubt about it.

Only thing I’ll say: I feel like all the attempted hype for the G-League died when Scoot went from “Wemby’s rival” to one of the worst high profile rookies we’ve ever seen

The entire concept of the “G League instead of College” was that it would be better preparation for the NBA, but if that were true it shouldn’t have been possible to spent a year in the G League without red flags showing up. The G League seems to have been more interested in promoting Scott than alerting him to the things he desperately needed to improve.

Yeah and in general, when you look at the G League, exactly how many productive players (of guys who weren't 1st rounders or reclamation projects) has it churned out to the NBA over its existence?

Sure, there have been a few, but it's not as if you've got names rolling off your tongue. Seems like half of all of them are from the Heat. You have to think long and hard. Has it really been worth it for the NBA, given the time and money they've put into it? I dunno, man.

The G-League used to be a complete joke back when it was known as the D-League. It wasn’t even a place for development, it was just a dumping ground for scrubs.

It’s come a long way since then. The fact that a G-League team can come in 2nd place at anything is a huge step up.

Doctor MJ wrote:OP you right about G League. No doubt about it.

Only thing I’ll say: I feel like all the attempted hype for the G-League died when Scoot went from “Wemby’s rival” to one of the worst high profile rookies we’ve ever seen

The entire concept of the “G League instead of College” was that it would be better preparation for the NBA, but if that were true it shouldn’t have been possible to spent a year in the G League without red flags showing up. The G League seems to have been more interested in promoting Scott than alerting him to the things he desperately needed to improve.


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I would argue that the red flags were there with Scoot and just ignored. Same with the Thompson twins. But that happens with players out of Europe as well.

LockoutSeason wrote:The G-League used to be a complete joke back when it was known as the D-League. It wasn’t even a place for development, it was just a dumping ground for scrubs.

It’s come a long way since then. The fact that a G-League can come in 2nd place at anything is a huge step up.

Yes, I thought the G-league teams normally lost to random Egyptian teams or whoever.

Mirotic12 wrote:

lambchop wrote:

Mirotic12 wrote:
Keep in mind that Unicaja Malaga, the Spanish team that the G-League United was playing against, isn't even a EuroLeague team. They don't even play in the EuroLeague at all. They play in the FIBA European Champions League, which is a lower level second or third competition.

You can do better than that, Miro. Baskonia also plays in the Euroleague and even made the Euroleague playoffs, yet they weren't even good enough to make the Spanish league playoffs, while Malaga finished 1st in the Spanish regular season standings. Malaga then lost their best of 5 semi final series 3-2. Meanwhile Baskonia, the Euroleague team, didn't come close to achieving any of that.

Everyone who follows European basketball knows that the Euroleague doesn't include the best teams in Europe exclusively. That's why teams like ASVEL and Berlin are there, while Malaga or Gran Canaria (mind you, they declined the opportunity to play for financial reasons) aren't. So using Malaga to prove your points is deliberately disingenuous.

But regarding the premise of the thread, the G-League is nowhere close to being the 2nd best league in the world.

Spoiler:

Just look at the budgets of the EuroLeague champions (Panathinaikos) and the FIBA BCL champions (Malaga).

Malaga's budget = €14 million euros
Panathinaikos' budget = €40 million euros

Panathinaikos' budget is almost triple the amount of Malaga's budget. These two teams are not even remotely comparable talent and roster wise. Not even in the same discussion at all.

Look at the rosters of these two teams:

Malaga's roster (FIBA Champions League champions):

PG Kendrick Perry / Alberto Diaz
SG Tyson Carter / Tyler Kalinoski
SF Kameron Taylor / Nihad Djedovic / Melvin Ejim / Jonathan Barreiro
PF Dylan Osetkowski / Killian Tillie / Tyson Perez
C Olek Balcerowski / David Kravish / Yankuba Sima

That's a €14 million euros budget. That kind of budget gets exactly what Malaga's team is. A team that would stand zero chance of making the EuroLeague playoffs. Maybe just Perry and Osetkowski would be OK second line players (backups in NBA terminology) at their positions for EuroLeague.

Spoiler:

Panathinaikos' roster (EuroLeague champions):

PG Kostas Sloukas / Lorenzo Brown / Dimitris Moraitis
SG Kendrick Nunn / Jerian Grant / Panos Kalaitzakis
SF Cedi Osman / Marius Gigonis / Ioannis Papapetrou
PF Dinos Mitoglou / Juancho Hernangomez / Alexandros Samodurov
C Mathias Lessort / Omer Yurtseven / Kostas Antetokounmpo

That's a €40 million euros budget. That kind of budget gets you one of the best rosters in EuroLeague.

Keep in mind that those bad EuroLeague teams you mentioned, like ASVEL and Baskonia, have bigger budgets than €14 million euros. ASVEL's budget is €25 million euros. Baskonia's budget is €16 million euros. Even the smallest budget in EuroLeague (Zalgiris) is higher than Malaga's budget, at €15 million euros.

As far as Gran Canaria is concerned, no way in the world are they as good as any team in the EuroLeague. That's just an average level EuroCup team. They didn't even make it past the top 12 stage of the second tier level EuroCup. They would have been destroyed in the EuroLeague, where every team is better than they are.

Panos Kalaitzakis and Ioannis Papapetrou are third at their positions (SG and SF) on Panathinaikos. They are both better players than any wing on Malaga. Olek Balcerowski was actually Panathinaikos' third center last season. Malaga signed him to be their first center for this season.

I seriously doubt if Malaga could win a single game against Panathinaikos in a playoff series. There is simply no comparison at all whatsoever between the level of those two teams. Panathinaikos is much better, much more talented, and much deeper of a team than Malaga is. This is not debatable at all, not even in the least slightest bit. There isn't even a single player on Malaga's roster that would make the 10 man main rotation of Panathinaikos. Not one guy on Malaga's whole roster is as good as any player in Panathinaikos' 10 man rotation.

So the G-League United select team was playing against way worse competition than they would have been playing against, if it was the EuroLeague champs (Panathinaikos) at the Intercontinental Cup, instead of the FIBA BCL champs (Malaga).

The G-League United select team lost to Malaga by 15 points. There is no way they would play Panathinaikos to within 15 points. It would be at least a 30 point blowout

.

That's just your opinion on Malaga's roster because you think their players suck simply due to their salaries. Fact of the matter is that they were significantly better than Baskonia who made the Euroleague playoffs, missed the Spanish playoffs and spent more money in the process. That's cool for them, but they were still not nearly as good as Malaga. They also lost both regular season matchups against Malaga last season. Would have been cool to see them meet in the playoffs, but, unfortunately, Baskonia didn't even make it, while Malaga cruised.

And why are you comparing Malaga to Panathinaikos? Not even Real Madrid could handle them. It would be better to compare Malaga to Baskonia or other weaker Euroleague playoff teams.

dc wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:OP you right about G League. No doubt about it.

Only thing I’ll say: I feel like all the attempted hype for the G-League died when Scoot went from “Wemby’s rival” to one of the worst high profile rookies we’ve ever seen

The entire concept of the “G League instead of College” was that it would be better preparation for the NBA, but if that were true it shouldn’t have been possible to spent a year in the G League without red flags showing up. The G League seems to have been more interested in promoting Scott than alerting him to the things he desperately needed to improve.

Yeah and in general, when you look at the G League, exactly how many productive players (of guys who weren't 1st rounders or reclamation projects) has it churned out to the NBA over its existence?

Sure, there have been a few, but it's not as if you've got names rolling off your tongue. Seems like half of all of them are from the Heat. You have to think long and hard. Has it really been worth it for the NBA, given the time and money they've put into it? I dunno, man.

I think you've got good points about the lack of effectiveness of minor league basketball producing major leagues, and I think the NBA's made specific errors beyond that as we've already discussed.

However, I do think that another thing to have in mind as part of the equation is control over basketball. They started what we now call the G League to kill the CBA and control that (American minor league) basketball space, and they started the WNBA to kill the ABL and control that (American professional women's) basketball space. (This relates to why the question of profit was always a false one when it came to the WNBA, because a brand new league in a nascent space would normally not start off by expect they could immediately pack giant arenas and thus book a smaller, cheaper place.)

The NBA doesn't want their projects to fail, but when it comes to projects in spaces like this, part of what's doing there is sucking up all the oxygen so that no other rival league can emerge, and so I think it's been pretty straight forward for the NBA to decide to keep funding them

I don't think anyone thinks the G-League is the 2nd best league in the world. I think it's probably like 10th or something.