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Curious what the board thinks, he wasn't a flashy player but was an ironman, great player got close to winning championships if it wasn't for Jordan's bulls.

Great shooter, passer & defender. Would actually fit better in today's league than when he played.

Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

One_and_Done wrote:Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

SlimShady83 wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

Take a look at the West all-stars, and all the great players who don't make it. There's no chance Stockton is an all-star.

One_and_Done wrote:Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

He was still an above average starter at 40 in 02-03. That means Shaq & Kobe Lakers, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs, Nowitzki, Nash Finley Mavericks, Webber, Stojakovic, Bibby Kings to name a few teams.

He played against some of the best point guards in history (Magic, Isiah, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, GP, JKidd and so on) and made the All Star team in 3 different decades. He is All time leader in Assists and Steals. He is 7th All time in Win Shares, 3rd All time in VORP and 8th all time in BPM.

What part of his game would not translate into today's NBA? In what area does he have skill gaps?

bkkrh wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

He was still an above average starter at 40 in 02-03. That means Shaq & Kobe Lakers, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs, Nowitzki, Nash Finley Mavericks, Webber, Stojakovic, Bibby Kings to name a few teams.

He played against some of the best point guards in history (Magic, Isiah, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, GP, JKidd and so on) and made the All Star team in 3 different decades. He is All time leader in Assists and Steals. He is 7th All time in Win Shares, 3rd All time in VORP and 8th all time in BPM.

What part of his game would not translate into today's NBA? In what area does he have skill gaps?

Here's a better question. What modern player plays like Stockton? Who is the archetype for his success?

Headline = "Where would Stockton rank as a, Point Guard today" ... Easily top 5, easy.

bkkrh wrote:
He was still an above average starter at 40 in 02-03. That means Shaq & Kobe Lakers, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs, Nowitzki, Nash Finley Mavericks, Webber, Stojakovic, Bibby Kings to name a few teams.

He played against some of the best point guards in history (Magic, Isiah, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, GP, JKidd and so on) and made the All Star team in 3 different decades. He is All time leader in Assists and Steals. He is 7th All time in Win Shares, 3rd All time in VORP and 8th all time in BPM.

What part of his game would not translate into today's NBA? In what area does he have skill gaps?

I love this, well said.

He'd have to shoot more, but the skills were there. You wouldnt want to build with him as your core piece because of the scoring pressure he doesnt create, but man he would be an excellent complementary piece.

He'd love so much PnR today, and he could shoot, played great at up-tempo paces ans everything too.

old and stiff

bkkrh wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

He was still an above average starter at 40 in 02-03. That means Shaq & Kobe Lakers, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs, Nowitzki, Nash Finley Mavericks, Webber, Stojakovic, Bibby Kings to name a few teams.

He played against some of the best point guards in history (Magic, Isiah, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, GP, JKidd and so on) and made the All Star team in 3 different decades. He is All time leader in Assists and Steals. He is 7th All time in Win Shares, 3rd All time in VORP and 8th all time in BPM.

What part of his game would not translate into today's NBA? In what area does he have skill gaps?

He said All-Star. He would not beat out Shai, Luka to start. Then he has to rely on possibly being selected.

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One_and_Done wrote:

bkkrh wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:Wouldn't even be an all-star given his lack of creation and pass first game, combined with a much stronger league.

He was still an above average starter at 40 in 02-03. That means Shaq & Kobe Lakers, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs, Nowitzki, Nash Finley Mavericks, Webber, Stojakovic, Bibby Kings to name a few teams.

He played against some of the best point guards in history (Magic, Isiah, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, GP, JKidd and so on) and made the All Star team in 3 different decades. He is All time leader in Assists and Steals. He is 7th All time in Win Shares, 3rd All time in VORP and 8th all time in BPM.

What part of his game would not translate into today's NBA? In what area does he have skill gaps?

Here's a better question. What modern player plays like Stockton? Who is the archetype for his success?

This is already a kinda pointless question. I could also ask, which current player plays like Magic, Jordan, Bird, AI, Barkley, Karl Malone, Shaq or to go with more current examples, who is the current Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Rajon Rondo?

To still give an example, Chris Paul has a lot of similar skills and a similar playstyle. He's kind of a mix of Isiah Thomas and John Stockton. Mike Conley also to a lesser extend. T.J. McConnell would be another one.

Best true PG in the league, his shooting and defense would put him above most guards currently and passing ability would be far and above everyone in the league. THen not to mention his leadership which would like be 2nd to maybe only Curry and even then i'm skeptical. Stockton would easily be Top 5 and in my opinion the #1 PG.

Why is this guy allowed to continue to troll this board?

bkkrh wrote:
To still give an example, Chris Paul has a lot of similar skills and a similar playstyle. He's kind of a mix of Isiah Thomas and John Stockton.

I dont see the Zeke much.

Paul is an excellent mid-range shooter and way better at protecting the ball. The PnR similarities to Stockton I see. About the only similarities with Isiah I see are height and, in contending years, sub-20 ppg.

bkkrh wrote:

One_and_Done wrote:

bkkrh wrote:
He was still an above average starter at 40 in 02-03. That means Shaq & Kobe Lakers, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Bowen Spurs, Nowitzki, Nash Finley Mavericks, Webber, Stojakovic, Bibby Kings to name a few teams.

He played against some of the best point guards in history (Magic, Isiah, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, Mark Price, GP, JKidd and so on) and made the All Star team in 3 different decades. He is All time leader in Assists and Steals. He is 7th All time in Win Shares, 3rd All time in VORP and 8th all time in BPM.

What part of his game would not translate into today's NBA? In what area does he have skill gaps?

Here's a better question. What modern player plays like Stockton? Who is the archetype for his success?

This is already a kinda pointless question. I could also ask, which current player plays like Magic, Jordan, Bird, AI, Barkley, Karl Malone, Shaq or to go with more current examples, who is the current Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Rajon Rondo?

To still give an example, Chris Paul has a lot of similar skills and a similar playstyle. He's kind of a mix of Isiah Thomas and John Stockton. Mike Conley also to a lesser extend. T.J. McConnell would be another one.

It's pretty blasphemous to mention Stockton in the same breathe as all-time greats like Magic & Bird. I can also envision exactly how most of those guys would translate, and where I don't it tends to be because that player would be much worse (eg Rondo, AI). Similarly, when your archetype is an all time historical outlier like Barkley or Shaq you're in trouble. Those guys are outliers for a reason.

CP3 is a vastly better shooter and PnR player than Stockton, and frankly is a much better passer and defender too. McConnell was closer to the mark, bit he's a bench player. Your other modern comp, Conley, made exactly 1 all-star game as an injury replacement.

Duffman100 wrote:Why is this guy allowed to continue to troll this board?

I don't know op that well, there are many trolls on this board and even one who's posted In this thread, sadly trolls are allowed to continue doing their things, you as mods should be able to detect who the trolls are at this IMO... I'm yet drinking and willing to admit It at this point, there's a reason I admit, countless times on the fourm, I'm drinking It's my Friday hahaha, drink usually once a week ...

There is at least 5-10 trolls on this board who continue to do what they want and nothing happens, again I haven't seen Op's posts, that much and will look at em when sobre, but saying this op Is a Troll compared to others is absurd, but again will look at this when sobred. Happy Friday , If you don't believe me I'll pin point you In the right direction with at least 1-5 people on here who're just trolls.

I love you and all.

Peace Out.

I feel it's unfortunate when people conflate having a different opinion with trolling. The NBA is tougher these days than it was in Stockton's day. The result of that is Stockton drops down from being a borderline top 15 player to being borderline top 25-30. Since only 24 guys make an all-star team, he drops out. This shouldn't be regarded as a particularly controversial opinion.

One_and_Done wrote:I feel it's unfortunate when people conflate having a different opinion with trolling. The NBA is tougher these days than it was in Stockton's day. The result of that is Stockton drops down from being a borderline top 15 player to being borderline top 25-30. Since only 24 guys make an all-star team, he drops out. This shouldn't be regarded as a particularly controversial opinion.

The OP wasn’t super specific about just plopping him out of nowhere via some magical mystery Time Machine. Why do some posters frame every argument like this? (Oh, I know exactly why, it’s a rhetorical question)

Why would he not similarly benefit from modern everything?

Not an all star? Asinine.