John Stockton destroying Gilbert Arenas is on video. Just sayin...

[ballzboyee]

The guy claims all athletes from the 90's sucked except MJ, and we have video of an almost 40-year-old John Stockton destroying him on the court. Does he not realize these games are recorded?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[One_and_Done]

Gilbert Arenas wasn't Gilbert Arenas yet. Is that the bar? Stockton's claim to fame is outplaying the prepubescent NBA version of an overhyped player like Arenas?

Who beats their chest about scoring 27 points in a close victory over a 20 year old rookie on one of the worst franchises in the league at that time? I know Stockton wouldn't. The Jazz were a veteran team; they should have handled the crappy Warriors and rookie Arenas.

[theFireBlanket]

Gilbert Arenas wasn't Gilbert Arenas yet. Is that the bar? Stockton's claim to fame is outplaying the prepubescent NBA version of an overhyped player like Arenas?

Who beats their chest about scoring 27 points in a close victory over a 20 year old rookie on one of the worst franchises in the league at that time? I know Stockton wouldn't. The Jazz were a veteran team; they should have handled the crappy Warriors and rookie Arenas.

To be fair Stockton was 40. Its not like he's in his prime either.

[ballzboyee]

Gilbert Arenas wasn't Gilbert Arenas yet. Is that the bar? Stockton's claim to fame is outplaying the prepubescent NBA version of an overhyped player like Arenas?

Who beats their chest about scoring 27 points in a close victory over a 20 year old rookie on one of the worst franchises in the league at that time? I know Stockton wouldn't. The Jazz were a veteran team; they should have handled the crappy Warriors and rookie Arenas.

Be real... 26 points then is like a 50 spot today. He got destroyed. Btw, 13 +/-, 32 game score for Stockton on .799 TS%.

Gil was a rookie, but this isn't even the best version of Stockton either. More like a farewell retirement tour Stockton. Arenas didn't get prime Magic, Isiah Thomas, Kevin Johnson, etc. These players are much more explosive scorers at the PG position than Stockton and would have destroyed Arenas even worse one on one. It's not like Gilbert Arenas ever became known for his defense, so how can he talk? Giving Gil a few more years experience might help a little, but he's still getting embarrassed sooner or later.

[One_and_Done]

A smart veteran player should carve up a unseasoned rookie guard who was picked in the 2nd round and is still learning NBA concepts and D. Almost no rookie has a positive impact on winning, even fewer among 2nd round picks.

Stockton scoring 26 and the Jazz eeking out a win in a game Arenas happened to be at strikes me as close to meaningless.

Here's the box score. For a rookie Arenas did quite well against a veteran team.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200204130GSW.html

[Pelon chingon]

Stockton is an all timer it's not surprising he turfed a loud mouth no substance foo like arenas.

[ItsDanger]

Arenas had a response video to these claims. LOL

[og15]

Gilbert Arenas wasn't Gilbert Arenas yet. Is that the bar? Stockton's claim to fame is outplaying the prepubescent NBA version of an overhyped player like Arenas?

Who beats their chest about scoring 27 points in a close victory over a 20 year old rookie on one of the worst franchises in the league at that time? I know Stockton wouldn't. The Jazz were a veteran team; they should have handled the crappy Warriors and rookie Arenas.

To be fair Stockton was 40. Its not like he's in his prime either.

Experience like that is going to destroy a 2nd round rookie, so that's actually not a big deal at all. There's a reason even really good rookies are still many times not positive impact players.

I wouldn't use this video as proof of anything, but Stockton was busting up lots of very good athletes at the PG position who weren't rookies, that's proof of something.

That said, responding to things Arenas says is a waste of time because while he'll make good points here and there, he'll throw out a lot more wild stuff.

[ballzboyee]

A smart veteran player should carve up a unseasoned rookie guard who was picked in the 2nd round and is still learning NBA concepts and D. Almost no rookie has a positive impact on winning, even fewer among 2nd round picks.

Stockton scoring 27 and the Jazz eeking out a win in a game Arenas happened to be at strikes me as close to meaningless.

Gil's argument is that at some point after the 90's the average NBA player became comparable to MJ in ability and athleticism. Presumably since he entered the league in 2001 and stated that he was a far superior player to a 90's pick-and-roll player like John Stockton, he imagines himself as that next evolutionary tier of NBA athlete on par with MJ. Kind of laughable, but I guess we could play along if there wasn't direct proof contradicting his claim. I just posted a video of an old John Stockton obliterating him on the court in 2001. This Stockton is undoubtedly a well past his prime version of a much better and more complete player from the 1980's and 1990's. Although an all-time great, Stockton also clearly was not the best PG of his era, especially as a primary scorer. There were PG's from the 90's that would have given Gil way more buckets. To me, this seems like a pretty open and shut case of somebody opening their mouth and inserting their foot into it and also being proven wrong on the court at the same time. As they say, we have the receipt.

[DavidSterned]

Stockton was literally still better as a 41 year old in his last season than Gilbert was at that point.

And for added perspective, Gil himself is 42 right now and has been out of the league for almost 13 years.

[One_and_Done]

A smart veteran player should carve up a unseasoned rookie guard who was picked in the 2nd round and is still learning NBA concepts and D. Almost no rookie has a positive impact on winning, even fewer among 2nd round picks.

Stockton scoring 27 and the Jazz eeking out a win in a game Arenas happened to be at strikes me as close to meaningless.

Gil's argument is that at some point after the 90's the average NBA player became comparable to MJ in ability and athleticism. Presumably since he entered the league in 2001 and stated that he was a far superior player to a 90's pick-and-roll player like John Stockton, he imagines himself as that next evolutionary tier of NBA athlete on par with MJ. Kind of laughable, but I guess we could play along if there wasn't direct proof contradicting his claim. I just posted a video of an old John Stockton obliterating him on the court in 2001. This Stockton is undoubtedly a well past his prime version of a much better and more complete player from the 1980's and 1990's. Although an all-time great, Stockton also clearly was not the best PG of his era, especially as a primary scorer. There were PG's from the 90's that would have given Gil way more buckets. To me, this seems like a pretty open and shut case of somebody opening their mouth and inserting their foot into it and also being proven wrong on the court at the same time. As they say, we have the receipt.

And all we have to do is assume that point was after 2002 and it becomes meaningless.

[CROBulls]

Stockton was literally still better as a 41 year old in his last season than Gilbert was at that point.

And for added perspective, Gil himself is 42 right now and has been out of the league for almost 13 years.

Well that's another thing going on for Stockton. Stockton was still in league at 42. He was that good. Gil himself was out of league at 29. Only thing what social media gave people is voice. And loudmouths are always gonna be the loudest.

Gil was also never even in his prime good defender, he would be getting cooked by Stockton at any part of his career at both sides of floor. Stockton is HoFer for a reason. But whatever floats your boat or anyone. That's a fact.

[ballzboyee]

A smart veteran player should carve up a unseasoned rookie guard who was picked in the 2nd round and is still learning NBA concepts and D. Almost no rookie has a positive impact on winning, even fewer among 2nd round picks.

Stockton scoring 27 and the Jazz eeking out a win in a game Arenas happened to be at strikes me as close to meaningless.

Gil's argument is that at some point after the 90's the average NBA player became comparable to MJ in ability and athleticism. Presumably since he entered the league in 2001 and stated that he was a far superior player to a 90's pick-and-roll player like John Stockton, he imagines himself as that next evolutionary tier of NBA athlete on par with MJ. Kind of laughable, but I guess we could play along if there wasn't direct proof contradicting his claim. I just posted a video of an old John Stockton obliterating him on the court in 2001. This Stockton is undoubtedly a well past his prime version of a much better and more complete player from the 1980's and 1990's. Although an all-time great, Stockton also clearly was not the best PG of his era, especially as a primary scorer. There were PG's from the 90's that would have given Gil way more buckets. To me, this seems like a pretty open and shut case of somebody opening their mouth and inserting their foot into it and also being proven wrong on the court at the same time. As they say, we have the receipt.

And all we have to do is assume that point was after 2002 and it becomes meaningless.

That is a huge assumption that requires a lot of evidence. The fact that 90's players like Dirk, KG, and Duncan were winning titles in the late 2000's and 2010's as their team's best players pretty easily refutes that claim in my book.

[DCasey91]

I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what was back then vs now.

MJ is the quickest mofo off the mark at his size bar none, laterally, moving around etc, so yes in a way everyone does look like a civic or sometimes a statue in comparison

Now the rules did help. 4/1, 1/4 side (every team exploited this) press. Under no circumstance am I giving that to fkn Jordan lol

Today would be different in numerous ways. Just more players around his matchup demographics, that's a fact. More length and better schemes and structures.

It's basically a whole team plan of not letting him operate fully and dictate on the inside... But easier said then done.

[One_and_Done]

Gil's argument is that at some point after the 90's the average NBA player became comparable to MJ in ability and athleticism. Presumably since he entered the league in 2001 and stated that he was a far superior player to a 90's pick-and-roll player like John Stockton, he imagines himself as that next evolutionary tier of NBA athlete on par with MJ. Kind of laughable, but I guess we could play along if there wasn't direct proof contradicting his claim. I just posted a video of an old John Stockton obliterating him on the court in 2001. This Stockton is undoubtedly a well past his prime version of a much better and more complete player from the 1980's and 1990's. Although an all-time great, Stockton also clearly was not the best PG of his era, especially as a primary scorer. There were PG's from the 90's that would have given Gil way more buckets. To me, this seems like a pretty open and shut case of somebody opening their mouth and inserting their foot into it and also being proven wrong on the court at the same time. As they say, we have the receipt.

And all we have to do is assume that point was after 2002 and it becomes meaningless.

That is a huge assumption that requires a lot of evidence. The fact that 90's players like Dirk, KG, and Duncan were winning titles in the late 2000's and 2010's as their team's best players pretty easily refutes that claim in my book.

I'm not even saying I agree with Arenas. Just that this video proves nothing.

The NBA today is much stronger than Stockton's era to be sure. In his own time he was a top 15 type player, these days Stockton would be more like top 25-30. Jordan likely wouldn't be the best player today either.

[ballzboyee]

And all we have to do is assume that point was after 2002 and it becomes meaningless.

That is a huge assumption that requires a lot of evidence. The fact that 90's players like Dirk, KG, and Duncan were winning titles in the late 2000's and 2010's as their team's best players pretty easily refutes that claim in my book.

I'm not even saying I agree with Arenas. Just that this video proves nothing.

The NBA today is much stronger than Stockton's era to be sure. In his own time he was a top 15 type player, these days Stockton would be more like top 25-30. Jordan likely wouldn't be the best player today either.

Jordan would still be the best player. The film show that Jordan routinely made plays that no other player in history could make. Changing eras doesn't alter this fact. In terms of Stockton, he would be a top five true point guard pretty easily. Where that would rank him overall, it is pretty difficult to say because the true PG position is being phased out like the PF position.

[One_and_Done]

That is a huge assumption that requires a lot of evidence. The fact that 90's players like Dirk, KG, and Duncan were winning titles in the late 2000's and 2010's as their team's best players pretty easily refutes that claim in my book.

I'm not even saying I agree with Arenas. Just that this video proves nothing.

The NBA today is much stronger than Stockton's era to be sure. In his own time he was a top 15 type player, these days Stockton would be more like top 25-30. Jordan likely wouldn't be the best player today either.

Jordan would still be the best player. The film show that Jordan routinely made plays that no other player in history could make. Changing eras doesn't alter this fact. In terms of Stockton, he would be a top five true point guard pretty easily. Where that would rank him overall, it is pretty difficult to say because the true PG position is being phased out like the PF position.

And I disagree.

[chicago paxsons]

And all we have to do is assume that point was after 2002 and it becomes meaningless.

That is a huge assumption that requires a lot of evidence. The fact that 90's players like Dirk, KG, and Duncan were winning titles in the late 2000's and 2010's as their team's best players pretty easily refutes that claim in my book.

I'm not even saying I agree with Arenas. Just that this video proves nothing.

The NBA today is much stronger than Stockton's era to be sure. In his own time he was a top 15 type player, these days Stockton would be more like top 25-30. Jordan likely wouldn't be the best player today either.

"these days Stockton would be more like top 25-30."

Still at it with that tripe...

[art_tatum]

Gil's main point was that 90s players weren't athletic and skilled enough to keep up with jordan.
No matter that Gil was a rookie he should've been way more athletic than a 40 yr old Stockton if that's his claim. Your athletic prime is like 18-27 Can't even stay in front of an old man.
90s players were plenty athletic and skilled, just different focuses

[bledredwine]

The guy claims all athletes from the 90's sucked except MJ, and we have video of an almost 40-year-old John Stockton destroying him on the court. Does he not realize these games are recorded?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Didn't a 40 year old Malone tear it up in the playoffs as well?

Then Jordan averaged 25 and 7 until injury and the Wizards were killing it prior.

Yeah... that's all BS. I believe what the cross era players say because unlike people here or the media,
they actually played against both sides. All of them refer to the 90s as a stacked or tough era, including Kobe, KG, Kidd, Shaq and many more. Not a single one of them has called the later years more challenging or talented. Hmmmm, what a coincidence - they must just all be pissed off, right? Realgm logic.

And as I mentioned in the other Stockton thread, a player (forgot which) mentioned that in two practices, Stockton was the best player on the court just a few years ago when he attended the team's practices.

Then you have the story of Kidd-Gilchrist talking **** and Jordan tearing him up, Gilchrist's own story.

Watch on YouTube

Most here don't know what they're talking about and just call this era more skilled when they have no idea or
experience with it. It's hilarious because we have all of these stories and first-hand player accounts, yet
everyone here says the opposite

It makes me so thankful to have YouTube and footage. Take my bball hero, MJ, for example. Everyone here would be calling Jordan mediocre, except everyone's two clicks away from seeing proof of just how amazing he actually was. If only Wilt had the sam