Is SGA an underrated scorer or was Kobe overrated?

[Hair Jordan]

SGA is about to average 30+ for the third straight season. Kobe scored 30+ just 3X in his entire 20 year career. SGA is also about to average 50% FG for the third straight year and fourth time in the last five seasons. Kobe never averaged 50% in any season in his career. SGA also shoots a higher % from the FT line and the arc. SGA just scored his career high of 45 points. Kobe could score 45 points in his sleep. He once scored 55 in one half and 62 in 3 quarters. As a volume scorer, Kobe crushes SGA but SGA seems to crush Kobe everywhere else. Is SGA a massively underrated scorer or was Kobe massively overrated as a scorer?

[Black Jack]

Kobe was a ballhog who never cared about being efficient. He took a ton of shots that he could have avoided. In this era if he was playing moreyball like everyone else, he'd easily average 30 ppg every year. Also he played with Shaq for years when Shaq was a clear #1 option who should have been given the rock.

I think Kobe had more natural talent and overall skills than SGA but clearly SGA plays much more controlled and probably a better outside shooter at this point in his career.

[One_and_Done]

Both are true.

If you look at the per100 #s and TS% the last 3 years, Shai is way ahead of Kobe.

[Tor_Raps]

Kobe is the most overrated greatest player of all time. I know he's an all time great but so many folks put him in the GOAT convo when he's actually right outside the top 10 of all time. Hope that's not seen as a knock as I understand Kobe's greatness.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Both are true.

If you look at the per100 #s and TS% the last 3 years, Shai is way ahead of Kobe.

You have to compare their abilities relative to their peers in their respective eras or whatever though, I'm not sure how to do that, or if you've done that.

[Black Jack]

Kobe is the most overrated greatest player of all time. I know he's an all time great but so many folks put him in the GOAT convo when he's actually right outside the top 10 of all time. Hope that's not seen as a knock as I understand Kobe's greatness.

Nobody says he's a goat candidate other than superfans

[One_and_Done]

Both are true.

If you look at the per100 #s and TS% the last 3 years, Shai is way ahead of Kobe.

You have to compare their abilities relative to their peers in their respective eras or whatever though, I'm not sure how to do that, or if you've done that.

No, I don't. If I think a bad era was bad, I'm not giving you bonus points for being one of the better players in said era. Bob Cousy was good relative to the 60s, but would not make the league today.

I think relative TS% is a bad stat. You can't just make a flat adjustment like that. If a guy shot 1% above league average in 1957, it doesn't mean he'll be 1% above average today (that's basically impossible).

In the last 3 years Shai is averaging 42.4pp100 on 631 TS% with a 127 Ortg.

From 00-10 Kobe only averaged only 36.9pp100, with a TS% of 558, and an Ortg of only 113. Kobe's career high Ortg is only 115. His career high TS% is 580.

SGA averages as many rebounds per 100, and more assists. SGA can run a low TO offense, which Kobe cannot. SGA is a better defender. It's very clear SGA has already surpassed Kobe, he just needs more longevity.

[The Master]

SGA is underrated, Bryant has always been overrated - and 00s and 20s are incomparable considering how differently basketball is played.

That being said, SGA is putting 31-6-6 on 30 PER and 11 BPM with +15 on/off on 24-5 team.

[SkyBill40]

Bryant is and always will be, to objective basketball fans anyway, hugely overrated. His game was about volume attempts and selfishness rather than efficiency and teamwork.

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[Patsfan1081]

I know this is a boring answer but……different era.

[SlimShady83]

SGA is underrated

[SlimShady83]

Kobe is the most overrated greatest player of all time. I know he's an all time great but so many folks put him in the GOAT convo when he's actually right outside the top 10 of all time. Hope that's not seen as a knock as I understand Kobe's greatness.

Nobody says he's a goat candidate other than superfans

I started this thread just b4 the season ... sorry link not working just copy paste

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2408215

[NZB2323]

Both, but also 97-04 was the period in NBA history where it was the hardest to score. After that they changed the rules to make it easier, and scoring volume and efficiency are up now compared to 97-04.

[Primedeion]

Bryant is and always will be, to objective basketball fans anyway, hugely overrated. His game was about volume attempts and selfishness rather than efficiency and teamwork.

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His career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) was slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+) and he won 5 titles and made 7 Finals. Plus, the Lakers were consistently one of the very best passing teams in the league, ranking #1 or #2 in team passing rating from 2000 through 2011. These are objective facts, but you people are deranged. Stop sippin on that haterade.

[Primedeion]

FG% is useless as a measure of scoring efficiency. It's 2024 and people still don't get that? Kobe has the fifth highest career inflation adjusted scoring rate in basketball history, and his career scoring efficiency (104 TS+) was only slightly worse than guys like Larry Bird's.

Don't get me started on the gap between them as postseason scorers.

Kobe's career average over 20 years: 27 pts per 75 on +2.5 relative TS

SGA career average: 21.5 pts per 75 on +0.6 relative TS

LMAO they aren't even on the same planet. Stop the disrespect.

[NZB2323]

Bryant is and always will be, to objective basketball fans anyway, hugely overrated. His game was about volume attempts and selfishness rather than efficiency and teamwork.

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And he’ll always be hugely underrated by his haters.

In 2007 he has a 58 TS% when the league average is 54.1%. He’s 12th all time in playoff assists, but he couldn’t be efficient or use teamwork to win.

It was also hard for Kobe to trust his teammates to score when his teammates came into practice hungover while Kobe had spent last night and the morning working out.

[SlimShady83]

I don't know how you can underate someone like SGA, especially when most of us put him In the top 3/5 In today's game, but If you're talking about all time then, I'll get back to this when/If he wins a chip ...

Is this not SGA's 7th season?, took Jordan 7 years to win, so let's wait.

In the words of Bron "It's a team sport" ...

[SkyBill40]

Bryant is and always will be, to objective basketball fans anyway, hugely overrated. His game was about volume attempts and selfishness rather than efficiency and teamwork.

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His career scoring efficiency mark (104 TS+) was slightly worse than Larry Bird's (105 TS+) and he won 5 titles and made 7 Finals. Plus, the Lakers were consistently one of the very best passing teams in the league, ranking #1 or #2 in team passing rating from 2000 through 2011. These are objective facts, but you people are deranged. Stop sippin on that haterade.

We're talking about Bryant the individual, not Bryant as a teammate. He was about self, that much is pretty clear. The only thing you mentioned here about the individual aspect is his TS percentage which is a garbage reference metric anyway.

You people? Pfft. Sure, dude.

I respect Bryant's work ethic and determination as he took the game and his personal development very seriously. I can't fault him for that nor should anyone. Every player has their faults, and Bryant's was a lack of trust. But I guess some of that could be understandable seeing who they had on those rosters.

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[og15]

Both are true.

If you look at the per100 #s and TS% the last 3 years, Shai is way ahead of Kobe.

You have to compare their abilities relative to their peers in their respective eras or whatever though, I'm not sure how to do that, or if you've done that.

No, I don't. If I think a bad era was bad, I'm not giving you bonus points for being one of the better players in said era. Bob Cousy was good relative to the 60s, but would not make the league today.

I think relative TS% is a bad stat. You can't just make a flat adjustment like that. If a guy shot 1% above league average in 1957, it doesn't mean he'll be 1% above average today (that's basically impossible).

In the last 3 years Shai is averaging 42.4pp100 on 631 TS% with a 127 Ortg.

From 00-10 Kobe only averaged only 36.9pp100, with a TS% of 558, and an Ortg of only 113. Kobe's career high Ortg is only 115. His career high TS% is 580.

SGA averages as many rebounds per 100, and more assists. SGA can run a low TO offense, which Kobe cannot. SGA is a better defender. It's very clear SGA has already surpassed Kobe, he just needs more longevity.

Sure, if you compare to 1957 when players still shot with two hands, dribbling was super restricted and the skills were primitive and a running hook was a good shot, it can support the blanket conclusion that there's no relative era comparison. Of course we compare players from 02-03 and 03-04 to 04-05 and 06-07, which means there's no large gap, primarily perimeter guys, and we have to adjust for rule changes don't we.

Then we add many of the same guys and compare to a league without bigs clogging the paint and with more spacing, and hmm, we have to adjust again, and we can see the clear difference, but if we of course act like we're comparing to 1957, then yes, we can make the argument that way.

[Devilanche]

As an OKC fan, SGA can get his kudos and compliment against other era folks when he start doing more in the playoffs.

Let him win some more playoffs and hopefully get a ring or two before comparing him to players on other era .