2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

Post #1 » by **bisme37** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:08 pm

We're somehow about at the halfway point of the season so I figured I should update the MVP thread/poll.

Luka, Franz and Paolo have been removed from consideration because they will not qualify based on number of games played. Sorry Luka, Paolo and Franz fans.

Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson now have their own options. They both appear regularly on the various MVP ladders and in current MVP betting odds. I spent a minute wondering why the Knicks should have 2 players in the poll haha, but decided it was deserved based on their performance. I do regret the there are no Rockets or Grizzlies with their own option, but I don't see a legit 2025 MVP candidate on those teams.

If you feel the poll needs adjustment, quote me and I'll reevaluate. The poll is limited to 10 options, so everyone can't be in there.

It's set up so you can change you vote as often as you'd like.

Enjoy the discussion and go MVP candidates!

Continued from here: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2419720

Young gun 6 · Post #2 » by **Young gun 6** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:14 pm

Just finished the other thread nearly fell off my chair when a poster said SGA and MJ are comparable defensively.

One is a 10 x all defensive team player, DPOY, guarding the best player night in night out.

The other is a 0 x all defensive team, isn’t even in the top 2 defenders in his own team and never guards the best offensive player on the opposing team …

SGA is a solid defender but he isn’t even top 3 on his own team for god sakes. Dort and J Dub take the best wing / perimeter offensive player every game allowing SGA to focus on offense and gamble on steals. He’s also nowhere near Chet’s level of defense either.

There is a decent argument SGA could be the 5th best defender on his own team (behind Dort, J Dub, Chet and Hartenstein). He’s objectively not as good as Dort or Chet without question on defense.

He isn’t fit to lick MJ’s shoes on a defensive level and it’s extremely insulting to even be mentioned in the same sentence as each other defensively.

Post #3 » by **bisme37** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:20 pm

I support the 65 games thing but it will def be weird to have an ALL NBA team with no Luka this year.

Feel bad for Franz and Paolo too, they have been incredible but can't make All NBA either.

And obviously the MVP from a couple years ago, Mr. Embiid, is long out of contention. I keep forgetting he's still around, somewhere.

Post #4 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:25 pm

The eye test shows he’s a very good defender, the raw stats show it, the nerd stats show it.

Read on Twitter

Exp0sed · Post #5 » by **Exp0sed** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:50 pm

bisme37 wrote:I support the 65 games thing but it will def be weird to have an ALL NBA team with no Luka this year.

Feel bad for Franz and Paolo too, they have been incredible but can't make All NBA either.

And obviously the MVP from a couple years ago, Mr. Embiid, is long out of contention. I keep forgetting he's still around, somewhere.

for Luka it might be significant for like, legacy purposes but guys like Franz and Paolo need to make it to get those big bucks..

Exp0sed · Post #6 » by **Exp0sed** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:53 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:The eye test shows he’s a very good defender, the raw stats show it, the nerd stats show it.

Read on Twitter

no1 said he isn't a very good defender but his defense was compared to prime MJ which is one of the wildest and most ludicrous takes I've seen here in a while

Infinite Llamas · Post #7 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:20 pm

Young gun 6 wrote:Just finished the other thread nearly fell off my chair when a poster said SGA and MJ are comparable defensively.

One is a 10 x all defensive team player, DPOY, guarding the best player night in night out.

The other is a 0 x all defensive team, isn’t even in the top 2 defenders in his own team and never guards the best offensive player on the opposing team …

SGA is a solid defender but he isn’t even top 3 on his own team for god sakes. Dort and J Dub take the best wing / perimeter offensive player every game allowing SGA to focus on offense and gamble on steals. He’s also nowhere near Chet’s level of defense either.

There is a decent argument SGA could be the 5th best defender on his own team (behind Dort, J Dub, Chet and Hartenstein). He’s objectively not as good as Dort or Chet without question on defense.

He isn’t fit to lick MJ’s shoes on a defensive level and it’s extremely insulting to even be mentioned in the same sentence as each other defensively.

Posters adding in “2-way” whenever they describe Shai is a not-so-passive-aggressive perceived jab at Jokic since they consider him a minus-defender.
To me it’s a concession that Shai is tiers below Jokic on offense so they try to use as some leveling pitch but it’s a hollow argument. It’s obvious who the most impactful defenders on the team are and Shai is hardly at the top of thar list.

Post #8 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:41 pm

It’s not subtle it’s just true guys. Shai is a very good defender.

Jokic is a lot less good on that end.

That, along with very similar scoring, is why Shai is neck and neck with him. It’s not a conspiracy.

Jaqua92 · Post #9 » by **Jaqua92** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:42 pm

We need a Jokic MVP and a Thunder annihilation in the playoffs asap to bring some of these Thunder fans down to earth.

Better than peak MJ. Championship favorite uncontested. Top 3 team of all time. MVP and DPOY this year?

Jesus.

Jaqua92 · Post #10 » by **Jaqua92** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:43 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:It’s not subtle it’s just true guys. Shai is a very good defender.

Jokic is a lot less good on that end.

That, along with very similar scoring, is why Shai is neck and neck with him. It’s not a conspiracy.

The gap on offense is way bigger than it is on defense.

Post #11 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:45 pm

Jaqua92 wrote:We need a Jokic MVP and a Thunder annihilation in the playoffs asap to bring some of these Thunder fans down to earth.

Better than peak MJ. Championship favorite uncontested. Top 3 team of all time. MVP and DPOY this year?

Jesus.

Apparently that beat down your team got didn’t help you find reality or reading comprehension.

Tetlak · Post #12 » by **Tetlak** » Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:53 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:It’s not subtle it’s just true guys. Shai is a very good defender.

Jokic is a lot less good on that end.

That, along with very similar scoring, is why Shai is neck and neck with him. It’s not a conspiracy.

Not to imply anything -

POA defense is a way more simple and frankly a lower pressure defensive role than being the big. The amount of responsibilities is significantly diminished, especially when surrounded by great defenders. Not to take anything away from Shai, or promote Jokic, but Jokic simply has a much tougher and much more significant role on defense than SGA.

At the end of the day we all know Jokic is average on defense, but does it really matter? Dude has literally already won a title and is having one of the greatest peaks ever. Whatever he is doing is working.

AleksandarN · Post #13 » by **AleksandarN** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:52 am

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:It’s not subtle it’s just true guys. Shai is a very good defender.

Jokic is a lot less good on that end.

That, along with very similar scoring, is why Shai is neck and neck with him. It’s not a conspiracy.

Why are we down playing the offensive side of the ball with just mentioning just scoring? That’s like saying narrowing down defense to just steals and blocks. Offensive side of the ball Jokic is far better than SGA is than on the defensive end. You had jokic drawing up plays and explaining it to the assistant coaches last game in the third. This is the level of offense Jokic brings that SGA doesn’t come close too. Yes SGA is far better defender no one is denying that but when it comes to offense it is not that close.

Read on Twitter

famicommander · Post #14 » by **famicommander** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 1:59 am

Jokic is presently:
3rd in points per game
3rd in rebounds per game
2nd in assists per game
4th in steals per game
1st in 3 point FG%
1st in PER
1st in WS/48
1st in VORP
1st in BPM

If he finishes 1st in PER, VORP, WS/48, and BPM it will be the fifth consecutive season he's led the NBA in all four of those categories. Only Jordan and LeBron have ever done that.

mrvioletowl · Post #15 » by **mrvioletowl** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:14 am

I watched Jokic mauled the other night to the point he had to change a jersey due to all the blood...and he would not get free throws. As good as SGA is, I can never vote for foul merchants, especially when officials favor certain players. It will always be deciding factor when it's a close race.

iggymcfrack · Post #16 » by **iggymcfrack** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:34 am

Refreshing to see the 2 legitimate candidates dominating the poll now that it’s updated. I have SGA ahead but by the tiniest of margins. Hopefully instead of getting caught up in toxicity and conflict when people disagree with us, we can just focus on this being literally the best MVP race in the history of the NBA. Jokic is having the best offensive season of all-time while at the same time SGA is having the best SG season since Jordan on a team on pace to win 70 games while missing their 2nd best player for most of the season. It doesn’t get any better than this.

iggymcfrack · Post #17 » by **iggymcfrack** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:35 am

mrvioletowl wrote:I watched Jokic mauled the other night to the point he had to change a jersey due to all the blood...and he would not get free throws. As good as SGA is, I can never vote for foul merchants, especially when officials favor certain players. It will always be deciding factor when it's a close race.

He has the most drives in the league. It’s not like Harden or KD getting all their free throws from swinging their arms around.

iggymcfrack · Post #18 » by **iggymcfrack** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:43 am

bisme37 wrote:We're somehow about at the halfway point of the season so I figured I should update the MVP thread/poll.

Luka, Franz and Paolo have been removed from consideration because they will not qualify based on number of games played. Sorry Luka, Paolo and Franz fans.

Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson now have their own options. They both appear regularly on the various MVP ladders and in current MVP betting odds. I spent a minute wondering why the Knicks should have 2 players in the poll haha, but decided it was deserved based on their performance. I do regret the there are no Rockets or Grizzlies with their own option, but I don't see a legit 2025 MVP candidate on those teams.

If you feel the poll needs adjustment, quote me and I'll reevaluate. The poll is limited to 10 options, so everyone can't be in there.

It's set up so you can change you vote as often as you'd like.

Enjoy the discussion and go MVP candidates!

Continued from here: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2419720

Looking up the best odds on Oddschecker (reviews several sites to find best odds), Sengun is actually 6th at 200:1. I feel like he could probably get a spot over Brunson. With that said, the top 5 guys are so far ahead of the rest of the field that as long as you have them, I don’t think it really matters. Does anyone seriously think someone other than SGA, Jokic, Wemby, Tatum, or Giannis is the MVP right now?

MarcusBrody · Post #19 » by **MarcusBrody** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:18 am

I'm a huge Jokic fan, but I'd probably vote SGA right now. I think Jokic is a better player, but the Thunder have been amazing and SGA makes them tick. Them barely dropping a beat when Chet went down has impressed me. I actually don't think that Shai is as big a part of the team's defensive success as some people as they have so many great players on that side of the ball and a great system, but I do think that he's the one real driver behind their offensive success (not saying other guys aren't valuable, but the offensive machine doesn't run with out him). Being the guy that's the offensive lynch pin of one of the leagues two really elite teams while playing very good defense is a solid MVP case to me.

I certainly wouldn't be sad if Jokic got it either. He's been an absolute monster and really held his team together for the first part of the season (they're improving a bit now). If he can close the record gap (or just keep it roughly where it is), I could definitely see him getting it, but while I don't subscribe to the "best player on the best team" criteria, I think that SGA has been good enough that his team's record helps him, especially as he's by the far the biggest offensive driver of that success.

CobraCommander · Post #20 » by **CobraCommander** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 4:39 am

bisme37 wrote:I support the 65 games thing but it will def be weird to have an ALL NBA team with no Luka this year.

Feel bad for Franz and Paolo too, they have been incredible but can't make All NBA either.

And obviously the MVP from a couple years ago, Mr. Embiid, is long out of contention. I keep forgetting he's still around, somewhere.

It’s weird But it’s fair right ?

Luka won scoring title last year but Embiid scored more ppg but only played 39 games and You can’t win the scoring title with 39 games like Embiid last year. The cut off for scoring is 58? Year end awards is 65.

This is the punishment for load management hurting the product.

Injury really determines all nba pretty much every year in some way

Who is leading the MVP race?