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A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

Has Duncan in his name.

I don’t have Kobe in my top 10 but this pretty terrible reasoning.

He’s not top 10 because there’s more then 10 players better than him.

Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Curry

In no particular order

Himothy Duncan wrote:A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

Duncan copied Walton's bankshot, so there you have it.

Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
12x All-Star
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

The first kid who got the ball into the peach basket? GOAT

He is maybe not top 10,but he is top 12 for me right now

maxpower8888 wrote:Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

You might be looking too much into accolades given by panels of sportswriters and broadcasters or coaches who don't really care. Why not use true evidence? How about proving that Kobe made his teams win by himself like no other 10 players in history could? Kobe did win when he had great teams around him, and he did not win much when he had little to average help. That might let you think that there are better floor raisers than him. Heck, even in his own time there were better players to elevate their teams (i.e. Duncan as proven especially in 2003, or Shaq. Just look at the Lakers' results w/o Kobe in contrast to games w/o Shaq when they were both on the team. You might easily make a case for LeBron having more impact, and in the end Kobe might not look that much better in terms of making his teams win than Dirk for example).

And it's not EVERYONE having him as a consensus top 5-10 player. That's an untrue allegation, as you might even find contemporaries who say he's not top 10 (Brian Scalabrine as an example: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/off-the-court/brian-scalabrine-says-kobe-bryant-isnt-an-all-time-top-10-player).

Kobe's competitiveness and resilience to adversity is refreshing compared to today's Laker superstars

Kingdibs19 wrote:He’s not top 10 because there’s more then 10 players better than him.

Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Curry

In no particular order

Jokic gonna push Kobe out of the top 10 for
Certain when he gets his second ring

Masigond wrote:

maxpower8888 wrote:Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

You might be looking too much into accolades given by panels of sportswriters and broadcasters or coaches who don't really care. Why not use true evidence? How about proving that Kobe made his teams win by himself like no other 10 players in history could? Kobe did win when he had great teams around him, and he did not win much when he had little to average help. That might let you think that there are better floor raisers than him. Heck, even in his own time there were better players to elevate their teams (i.e. Duncan as proven especially in 2003, or Shaq. Just look at the Lakers' results w/o Kobe in contrast to games w/o Shaq when they were both on the team. You might easily make a case for LeBron having more impact, and in the end Kobe might not look that much better in terms of making his teams win than Dirk for example).

And it's not EVERYONE having him as a consensus top 5-10 player. That's an untrue allegation, as you might even find contemporaries who say he's not top 10 (Brian Scalabrine as an example: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/off-the-court/brian-scalabrine-says-kobe-bryant-isnt-an-all-time-top-10-player).

Arguments for superior impact by LeBron, Shaq, and Duncan don't have to be arguments against Kobe. One could have all four in one's top ten.

Himothy Duncan wrote:A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

So you knock Kobe out of the top 10 because he's trying to be MJ yet you ignore

- LeBron James: "“I wear No. 23 because of Michael Jordan. I think he was the greatest basketball player ever.”
- Lebron James saying he's chasing the ghost who played in Chicago
- LeBron James tried to mirror Jordan by staring in a Space Jam movie, only to fail badly
- LeBron James in 2018 after making fadeaways against the Raptors: "I mean, you just look at some of the greatest that’s played this game: MJ, Kobe, those guys that I kind of looked up to when I was younger and obviously I grew up watching those guys. Just studying the footwork that they had, the ability to make tough shots. You know, it's just a lot of inspiration from those guys."

So he's right there with Kobe as far as not being original and should not be top 10 either.

maxpower8888 wrote:Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
12x All-Star
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

No they don't. Show me any top 100 list with him in the top 10 from the last 5 years.

JN61 wrote:Has Duncan in his name.

Lol my name is just a play on “I’m Him”, I’m not a Duncan fan at all.

The Explorer wrote:

Himothy Duncan wrote:A lot of ppl have Kobe in their top 10s, and he was definitely a great player but I don’t think he can be in there for one simple reason: he was a poor man’s MJ. Period. He literally mimicked Jordan’s game down to his mannerisms and trying hard to be a psycho competitor that trashes team mates in practice etc. but he was not as good. Jordan clears him in basically everything.

The top 10 should be reserved for ORIGINALS, not copy cats. Almost everyone else in most top 10 lists was unique, except Kobe.

So you knock Kobe out of the top 10 because he's trying to be MJ yet you ignore

- LeBron James: "“I wear No. 23 because of Michael Jordan. I think he was the greatest basketball player ever.”
- Lebron James saying he's chasing the ghost who played in Chicago
- LeBron James tried to mirror Jordan by staring in a Space Jam movie, only to fail badly
- LeBron James in 2018 after making fadeaways against the Raptors: "I mean, you just look at some of the greatest that’s played this game: MJ, Kobe, those guys that I kind of looked up to when I was younger and obviously I grew up watching those guys. Just studying the footwork that they had, the ability to make tough shots. You know, it's just a lot of inspiration from those guys."

So he's right there with Kobe as far as not being original and should not be top 10 either.

They play nothing alike though lol. Kobe is a legit copy cat that wasn’t as good. Imagine in 50 years there’s another great player that’s also a copy cat but has the achievements to get into the top 10 . You would be okay with having 2 poor man’s versions in the all-time top 10?

Tim Lehrbach wrote:Arguments for superior impact by LeBron, Shaq, and Duncan don't have to be arguments against Kobe. One could have all four in one's top ten.

Sure, but those are three (IMO sure-fire better) players from parts of his own era alone, which suggests that are other great players who were no contemporaries of Kobe but might have a great case of belonging in the top 10 over him.

Did Kobe have a top 10 career? Yes. Easily as he was lucky enough to having been on some great teams with a great coach.
Is he a top 10 player in terms of impact? Not that certain. Culturally yes, not sports-wise.

I think that Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, and Jokic were/are easily more impactful than him. So there's no place for him in the top 5 ever at all.
And then there are Magic, Bird, Chamberlain, Olajuwon, Garnett who all might have cases of being players who had more impact in making their teams win. And as I said there are players who might be equal to Kobe: Giannis, Dr. J, David Robinson, Dirk, Karl Malone, Curry, Durant (list not complete).

I think Kobe was one of the very best players when you need a single player to win a game by himself as there are very few players who had the will to take that many shots to do so (and the ability to overcome defenses). But that was not Kobe on average for his whole career. Alas that was also a weakness in his game as he was an inferior team player to many other ATGs. He had different gears like scoring now, passing then, not really having the best basketball IQ to read what was the best option in a certain situation (or even too much of an ego as he wanted to be the man who made his team win). In the end it's all about making your team win. It should not be ignored that Kobe had too many bad shooting nights really hurting the Lakers with his approach to the game.
He's an ATG even in terms of making his team win nevertheless. But sure-fire Top 10? There are some evidences that he should not belong there.

Masigond wrote:

maxpower8888 wrote:Kobe gets slandered to hell on this board, it's insane. Even just taking his years without Shaq he has one of the best resumes of all time.

In 12 seasons (with the last 3 being injury plagued so really in 9 seasons):

2x NBA Champion
3x Finals appearances
2x Finals MVP
1x MVP
8x All-NBA First Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
6x All-Defensive First Team
1x All-Defensive Second Team
2x Scoring Champion

That part of his resume alone puts him in the top 10. Too many people on this board just look at his stats and say "he was inefficient, therefore he was overrated" and it's funny. Players, analysts, pundits, EVERYONE has him as a consensus top 5-10 player, but this board thinks they're smarter than everyone else.

You might be looking too much into accolades given by panels of sportswriters and broadcasters or coaches who don't really care. Why not use true evidence? How about proving that Kobe made his teams win by himself like no other 10 players in history could? Kobe did win when he had great teams around him, and he did not win much when he had little to average help. That might let you think that there are better floor raisers than him. Heck, even in his own time there were better players to elevate their teams (i.e. Duncan as proven especially in 2003, or Shaq. Just look at the Lakers' results w/o Kobe in contrast to games w/o Shaq when they were both on the team. You might easily make a case for LeBron having more impact, and in the end Kobe might not look that much better in terms of making his teams win than Dirk for example).

And it's not EVERYONE having him as a consensus top 5-10 player. That's an untrue allegation, as you might even find contemporaries who say he's not top 10 (Brian Scalabrine as an example: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/off-the-court/brian-scalabrine-says-kobe-bryant-isnt-an-all-time-top-10-player).

Who says the coaches and analysts don't care, you? That's a ridiculous statement to make. Your argument is "don't use the evidence of the awards he won for playing basketball, focus on the two seasons the Lakers didn't make the playoffs instead." Being a floor raiser isn't the be-all end-all, MJ was not a great floor raiser but he's the GOAT. Jimmy Butler is a good floor raiser but you wouldn't have him in your top 10.

And when I say EVERYONE I mean the vast majority of people, obviously you're never going to get 100% consensus on any subject.

I guess the knock on Kobe in the ATG conversation is did he ever really stand out from his peers as the best player of his era? My recollection of the 2000s was that there was a bit of a vacuum in terms of who the best player in the league was, and Kobe was up there with Shaq, Duncan, KG, LeBron in the late 2000s, maybe Dirk and Nash and Wade. And to be fair you could probably make a similar argument for Duncan and Curry, though I do think their peak years were better. Kobe WAS more the face of the league than those other guys, and I think that matters to a degree, as does his incredible resume and hardware. But in terms of year over year ability he was closer to the Tatum/SGA/Harden of that era than LeBron or Jokic