Draymond & Klay only have two all-NBA selections each

[Hook_Em]

Seems low considering their two-way impact for so many years but maybe it’s warranted considering Steph & KD were guaranteed a spot for three of those seasons. There are probably examples of hall of famers or intricate parts of a dynasties that have none or less all-nba selections but since they played during my peak bball era of interest it just stood out to me.

Should they have made it more times in hindsight or is this much ado about nothing?

[KokoKaizer]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

[DirtyDez]

In court of public opinion Draymond hasn’t helped himself regarding voter accolades. On the court he’s one of the most impactful players of his generation (in his prime).

[lessthanjake]

Klay shouldn’t have any all-NBA selections, since he was never a top 15 player in the league. Draymond should probably have more than two though—it should probably be three, or possibly even four.

[hauntedcomputer]

Seems about right. A couple of "all-time pretty goods" instead of "all-time greats"

[Hook_Em]

Klay shouldn’t have any all-NBA selections, since he was never a top 15 player in the league. Draymond should probably have more than two though—it should probably be three, or possibly even four.

Klay had too many high level playoff performances to be labeled an all time “pretty good”. Of course that has nothing to do with all-nba selections but just pointing out as an observation.

[NZB2323]

I always thought that Klay was overrated. His defense is good but nothing spectacular, as evidence by his one 2nd all-defense, in comparison to Green winning DPOTY. On offense the Curry/Green pick and roll is what made the Warriors great on offense, and the +/- numbers back that up. For his career Green has a +/- of +9.2 and Klay is at +4.7. If it isn’t Game 6 Klay, which is most games, Green is a better player.

[Exp0sed]

Dray deserved more, Klay deserved less. pretty simple

[f4p]

Klay shouldn’t have any all-NBA selections, since he was never a top 15 player in the league. Draymond should probably have more than two though—it should probably be three, or possibly even four.

Klay had too many high level playoff performances to be labeled an all time “pretty good”. Of course that has nothing to do with all-nba selections but just pointing out as an observation.

Klay has also had entire series and playoff runs of subpar play, especially anything after 2016. Draymond is the very clear secondary driver of the warriors dynasty. He is the reason they have basically been as much a defensive dynasty as offensive (outside of the KD years). Basically any impact stat you can find will have Draymond looking like a superstar and it makes it very clear the Draymond/Steph synergy is the real key to the warriors success.

Klay is basically the Tony Parker of the warriors. The guy who sometimes weirdly is thought of as the second best in the trio but is far, far behind the Draymond/manu of the group and who has had some shockingly poor playoffs during championships.

[Hook_Em]

Klay shouldn’t have any all-NBA selections, since he was never a top 15 player in the league. Draymond should probably have more than two though—it should probably be three, or possibly even four.

Klay had too many high level playoff performances to be labeled an all time “pretty good”. Of course that has nothing to do with all-nba selections but just pointing out as an observation.

Klay has also had entire series and playoff runs of subpar play, especially anything after 2016. Draymond is the very clear secondary driver of the warriors dynasty. He is the reason they have basically been as much a defensive dynasty as offensive (outside of the KD years). Basically any impact stat you can find will have Draymond looking like a superstar and it makes it very clear the Draymond/Steph synergy is the real key to the warriors success.

Klay is basically the Tony Parker of the warriors. The guy who sometimes weirdly is thought of as the second best in the trio but is far, far behind the Draymond/manu of the group and who has had some shockingly poor playoffs during championships.

Klay was averaging 24 ppg on 70% ts before tearing his ACL vs Toronto. Ppl bring up KD getting hurt but Klay being healthy is an all time what if that series.

[NZB2323]

Klay shouldn’t have any all-NBA selections, since he was never a top 15 player in the league. Draymond should probably have more than two though—it should probably be three, or possibly even four.

Klay had too many high level playoff performances to be labeled an all time “pretty good”. Of course that has nothing to do with all-nba selections but just pointing out as an observation.

At the same time Klay’s playoff averages are 19, 4, and 2, 55.5 TS%, 13.7 PER, 0.4 BPM.

[cupcakesnake]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

[sp6r=underrated]

In court of public opinion Draymond hasn’t helped himself regarding voter accolades. On the court he’s one of the most impactful players of his generation (in his prime).

Correct. I think of Dray as this generation's Manu. To lots of casuals Dray/Manu were glorified bus riders who were good players. That attitude exists in the basketball community too. Look at Poole's comment to Dray. Furthermore both annoyed fans. Manu for the flopping. Dray for being a cheap shot artist. Both had a genuine flaw. Manu wasn't durable. Dray's temper got himself suspended from Finals games.

But both were generational, HOF players substantially better than many players with vastly more accolades. The data bears it out and if you carefully pay attention you can see the value of both players. They're basketball IQ tests. When someone says Dray is just a role player they are telling you they don't really understand what Dray did out there.

[NZB2323]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

2016 I think you can make the argument that Draymond should have been all-NBA 1st team at Center over DeAndre Jordan, but at the same time so much of what Green does depends on Curry. Green is 51-73 in his career when Curry isn’t playing.

[KokoKaizer]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

I generally have the same opinion than you but, this one is a complete no for me

[kazyv]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

this talk about a guy that was an empty spot on offense for most of his career always puzzled me. especially since most of the criticisms of curry were always centered on defense. so he's supposedly playing with this elite defender that gets to be an all nba alltimer player just by virtue of his defense, but curry gets exposed over and over and over again?
nobody ever said that mitchell wasn't good enogh on defense when he was playing with rudy. all the blame fell to gobert. yet here we have the guy who's supposed to be this elite defender but they can't figure out to build a good defense unless their team is so overpowered/stacked, they don't even have to try on defense? and even then it's all "curry was exposed" talk. well... why can't this draymond guy ever cover for curry? why is the defense built in such a way to make draymond shine rather than cover the team's weaknesses? is it better for the team that way? well... where are his teams out of this world defensive results that are supposed to put him into this elite level?

he's got two all nba selections and a DPOY which seems about right, because he only ever deserved the all nba when he was actually a consistent contributor on offense and also never consistently got his team to that elite defensive level in the regular season. so we're not even talking about some elite performer on defense here, just a good role player that fits into their not superior, but sometimes decent enough defensive setup

[The4thHorseman]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

2016 I think you can make the argument that Draymond should have been all-NBA 1st team at Center over DeAndre Jordan, but at the same time so much of what Green does depends on Curry. Green is 51-73 in his career when Curry isn’t playing.

Except for the fact that Draymond's primary position was PF and played that much more than he played Center.

[NZB2323]

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

2016 I think you can make the argument that Draymond should have been all-NBA 1st team at Center over DeAndre Jordan, but at the same time so much of what Green does depends on Curry. Green is 51-73 in his career when Curry isn’t playing.

Except for the fact that Draymond's primary position was PF and played that much more than he played Center.

That never stopped people from putting Duncan in as a forward on All-NBA when he primarily played center.

[cupcakesnake]

Maybe Klay, but maybe

Dray ?

Draymond is better than Klay. A lot better.
I dislike Draymond as much as anyone, but it's evident he was probably the best defensive player of his generation. All the Golden State championships involved some seriously elite defense anchored by Donkey.

I don't think Dray or Klay were clear cut top 15 players in any given season though. Top 20 sometimes, top 30 a lot for sure, but all-NBA is only 15 guys. Draymond.... maybe could have won 2-3 more. I'd take his defense and winning over a lot of 3rd team forwards over the years.

2016 I think you can make the argument that Draymond should have been all-NBA 1st team at Center over DeAndre Jordan, but at the same time so much of what Green does depends on Curry. Green is 51-73 in his career when Curry isn’t playing.

Offensively, Draymond is pretty dependant on Curry. A non-scoring threat himself, but a smart, physical playmaker; Draymond is only as useful as the guys he's passing to.

Defensively, Draymond's incredible play obviously has nothing to do with Curry. He's obviously the one boosting Curry on that end. Golden State has been a very strong defense in this era, and that's a big part of their success. There's another possible universe where Curry's Warriors are an offensively slanted team that never gets over the hump despite Curry's revolutionary offensive impact.

[cupcakesnake]

2016 I think you can make the argument that Draymond should have been all-NBA 1st team at Center over DeAndre Jordan, but at the same time so much of what Green does depends on Curry. Green is 51-73 in his career when Curry isn’t playing.

Except for the fact that Draymond's primary position was PF and played that much more than he played Center.

That never stopped people from putting Duncan in as a forward on All-NBA when he primarily played center.

Duncan was typically eligible at both positions, so voters crammed him in where they felt like it. That's fine because whether you feel strongly that Duncan was a center or not, he clearly played whatever frontcourt positions San Antonio needed him to depending on the rest of their personnel. After David Robinson retired, it was more clear that Duncan was a center, but the Spurs played other centers next to him often enough, and he was so versatile it didn't matter. He logged plenty of PF minutes until he hit his 30s.

In 2016 and most other years, Draymond only played center in special lineups. In 2016 they had Andrew Bogut healthy, with Festus Ezeli in the rotation for half the year. Mareese Speights played tons of backup center as a scoring specialist, and Anderson Varejao joined the roster at one point.

I don't really care about positions and wouldn't have minded Draymond over Deandre Jordan in 2016. Draymond was 7th in MVP voting that year and 2nd in DPOY. He had substantially more all-NBA votes than Deandre did.