Post Mortem #4 - Charlotte Hornets

[Clav]

24th March, 2025


FOURTH team eliminated, the Charlotte Hornets

Previous threads:

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2446972 = #1 Jazz
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2446975 = #2 Pelicans
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2448649 = #3 Wizards

Time of death: March 23, 2025
Record at elimination: 18-53

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/yearly

Contract summary:
Ball - 4 yr Max at ~43M
Bridges - 2yrs 25/23 descending
Nurkic - 19M expiring next season
Grant Williams - 2yrs 14M (injured-ACL)
Josh Green - 2yrs 14M
Okogie - non-guaranteed 7.7M next season
Seth Curry - UFA
Taj Gibson - UFA


Rookie Scale/minimums (varies on 2-4 years remaining)
Brandon Miller - extension eligible next offeason (injured-wrist)
Salaun - 8M for two more seasons until extension
Tre Mann - extension eligible or will enter RFA (was ruled out for season with back in january)
Mark Williams - extension eligible or 6M QO
Nick Smith Jr - 2.7M
DaQuan Jeffries - non-guaranteed 2.7M
Moussa Diabate - non-guaranteed 2.2M
Marcus Garrett (10-day)

TW
Damion Baugh
Wendell Moore Jr.
KJ Simpson

Dead-cap - none retained NEXT season, 14M off the books this season.

25-26 Capspace - -17M, first apron (hard-capped)


PICKS for 2025 draft
CHA 1st
CHA 2nd
NOLA 2nd





A SMALL SEASON REVIEW:

https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/cha/charlotte-hornets

The Hornets have had season with highs and lows on the scale of development and cohesion, and rotten injuries. There's no doubt that the long term injuries to veteran Grant Williams, and potential star Brandon Miller really made this team look worse than advertised to start. There's a lot to like with how Lamelo has played this year -- even if he's missed some time or is lackadasical on defense -- he has a real unique feel for the game and is a highlight package most every night. Salaun didn't really have the greatest rookie season, but other Hornets had some good run of play. Tre Mann, and Moussa Diabate have had moments. Mann enters a big free agency period this offseason. Diabate looks like a promising player to keep with the team, too.

A big story of Charlotte's year was the rescinded trade of Mark Williams / Cam Reddish, Dalton Knecht, and a 2030 1st swap (LAL/CHA). Williams failed his physical but has still been playing decently with the club. For those who watch consistently, what is his status going forward ?

Another big man was traded, Nick Richards, midway through the season to Phoenix. That's how Nurkic and Okogie ended up in Charlotte. There's some questions in the front court, and deeper bench, too. Nurkic isn't moving the needle a lot, but he's a big body at least for a year.

In terms of production on the court, the Hornets by the flip of the new year had only 7 wins, and sit at 18 now. Indeed some scrappy wins, like Detroit twice, a three game streak in late January (UTA/CHI/DAL), and recently the team has 4 wins and 6 losses in the last 10. Even if some results have gone their way, the team was never a threat for play-in status and now is firmly in the Lottery, hoping for a nice pick in the next draft. They have some moves to make, but the biggest one I see is another starter-quality forward or guard to pair with Lamelo. Miles Bridges had a quiet year, which is good. And rounding out the roster with some more defensive quality would seem good...

With the chance to select another cornerstone player, and some expirings, whats your outlook on the Hornets ?

Bonus - will Taj Gibson get another contract ? 39 and still gettin' dem checks!

[Tor_Raps]

They get Cooper, they're set for the future.

They don't, they continue their misery

[EmpireFalls]

Season murdered by season ending injuries to 3 of our best 6 players (seriously, go look at some of our lineups especially in January… major Taj Gibson minutes), so I don’t think they’re quite as bad as the horrid net rating and 18-53 record.

However, everything was bad this year. Everything. I am extremely disappointed in, quite frankly, everyone, and retain only a sliver of hope moving forward.

Let’s start preseason.

-Traded for Josh Green, a player who scored 0 total points at the Olympics. No injury or mins restriction. Zero points. Turns out that Luka made him look a lot better than he was in Dallas - he can only hit corner 3s, it’s his only offensive skill. Defense is overrated. He is a bad starter.

-drafted Tidjane Salaun. If you haven’t watched this kid play yet I envy you. He’s a car crash mixed with a train wreck. No basketball feel. No exaggeration the worst top 6 pick I’d seen in decades. He has no ability to do anything with the ball in his hands, poor BBIQ, and despite his size, cannot block shots. He does absolutely nothing well at the pro level. A terrible, terrible pick, and with Matas and Clingan on the board, an unforgivable one.

-hired Charles Lee. Now, he has been dealt a terrible hand with talent (which we’ll get to) but his offense is atrocious. There’s no movement, it’s all static and relies on perimeter isos to break down the defense and bombing 3s. We set the record for most missed 3s in a game vs the Bulls this year. Kind of sums it up. Moreover, both Miller/Ball significantly increased their 3 point volume with big efficiency drains. He doesn’t give us an edge on either end of the floor and routinely gets outcoached in any competitive situation. I don’t see what he brings to the table, aside from getting OK defensive effort from the end of the bench, I suppose.

The injuries to Mann (our only competent ball handler outside of LaMelo, out for the season in November) and Williams (our only decent pick and pop player and post defender) completely cratered a talent-starved team. Our bench is now completely awful and no one other than Ball or occasionally Bridges could create a shot. Micic did terrible before being traded. Then Miller got injured with his wrist, leaving Ball, Bridges and Williams as the only NBA-level scorers on the roster. No team can win with G League bums playing this heavy minutes.

Despite starting 6-9 we went downhill fast. Couldn’t get stops and couldn’t win games.

We then attempted to trade Mark Williams. It was a decent return but a real punch in the gut. Hornets haven’t had a big as good as him in a decade and he’s only 23. Defense can be poor due to lack of strength but give him a healthy summer in the weight room before trading. Luckily the Lakers pulled the plug. Unfortunately we acquired Nurkic from Phoenix as a salary dump. I didn’t hate that, as it netted us a first, making it (along with the Richards dump to Phoenix) actually a shrewd trade. However, this now gives us a logjam at center and portends another rough season next year. It also pushes out the one bright spot - two way Moussa Diabate who rebounds like Rodman and plays like a man on fire - significantly cutting his minutes.

All in all, though, I cannot avoid the 1A LaMelo problem. I do not think he is a championship level #1 and should not be the only initiator. No one can get to the rim consistently. That’s the offensive issue. They have attempted to make LaMelo into James Harden and he’s just not that player. He shouldn’t be breaking down defenses like a Cade Cunningham - he should play in an uptempo system like under Borrego with another ball handler. View Haliburton in Indiana as the keystone. Run him off ball more. Unfortunately, Ball and Miller regressed due to being swarmed on the perimeter and Lee’s scheme teaching them to just answer that problem by bombing bad 3s. It works for the Celtics but not us. Both have strength issues and don’t have tons of juice to the rim, but Lee’s system set them up to fail.

LaMelo had a very hot start and was absolutely awesome in November, but since the injury midseason, has since become checked out and is regressing, which tends to happen when he sees constant doubles and no one on the team can punish them. Jeff Peterson addressed this by signing Elfrid Payton. I don’t really have to say anything else.

This team has no supporting talent. Just check out a Hornets box score and you’ll laugh.

What concerns me is I don’t really trust us to get or develop talent. That’s the core issue. Why? We have a GM who cannot evaluate talent (the Salaun pick was effectively criminal, arguably the worst pick in Hornets history). We have a coach who cannot solve problems.

The only hope I see on the horizon is that we do have three talented young players and a lot of picks moving forward. Cooper Flagg could save this team. If not… prepare for another bad season.

[Triple M]

I dont even know who their gm is the last 1 i remember was Mitch

Keep the coach

They preformed below expectations. I think i had them around the 8 seed in the summer

They will be on the rise of they get Flagg and treadmill if they dont

[Mavrelous]

That Salaun pick is a firable offense, Mark Williams barely plays and Clingan was still on the board...

[lethalizer]

The Eastern Conference version of the Pelicans.

Bunch of health issues. If they could put together a season with their core pieces being healthy, they could easily be a play in team in this Eastern Conference.

At one point they will have so many lottery talent stacked in this team they'll naturally become a postseason candidate, like the current Pistons.

Could happen next season, or in two years, but it'll happen.

[FarBeyondDriven]

Melo is the worst kind of player to build around so until he's gone it'll just be business as usual in Charlotte and nothing will matter since G.M., coach and surrounding cast will have their hands tied behind their backs. There's some compelling young talent but they need an adult at the PG position to tie it all together and give fans hope.

[giberish]

They had some injuries but they just don't have enough solid rotation players. It's really surprising how thin they are. They've been in the lotter long enough to assemble a significant number of draft picks, and their young guys are cheap enough they should be able to afford solid depth. Instead their depth is marginal when at full health and falls apart with routine NBA levels of injuries.

Just have 11-13 credible NBA players - which really shouldn't be hard when you've got as many young guys (and relatively cheap young guy contracts) as Charlotte has - and then moderate health from Ball/Miller can push them to .500 (you want 11-13 so that when a couple guys are injured you still have an 8-10 man rotation). Making moves to become legitimately good would be more difficult but just getting to mediocre should be easy from their situation.

[EmpireFalls]

Melo is the worst kind of player to build around so until he's gone it'll just be business as usual in Charlotte and nothing will matter since G.M., coach and surrounding cast will have their hands tied behind their backs. There's some compelling young talent but they need an adult at the PG position to tie it all together and give fans hope.

Congrats on missing the point of the exercise entirely and doing the laziest form of analysis possible. You are clearly very driven.

[GoBobs]

From a basketball standpoint the problem is all the best players are jump shooters who don't particurally play great defense. No one really pressures the rim or generates pts at the ft line on offense. They are like a homeless version of the Suns.

Front office has been trading anything of value on the roster for picks aside from LaMelo, Brandon and Miles. They seem to be committed to only building through the draft and then went out and picked the worst guy in the draft.

From a coaching standpoint we saw a shift to much higher usage from LaMelo and way more 3 pt shots. Jury is still out, but have to give the new coach a little time.

The way I see it there are two options for next year. Either you try to put some pieces we down't have around LaMelo and see if the team can get to the playoffs, or you trade LaMelo for a pick package and blow the whole thing up.

From a fan standpoint I am ready to see some actual competitive basketball. What I expect to see is a prolonged rebuild and 20 more years of losing.

[Godymas]

I didn't realize it, but Miller and Ball are literally 1 year apart in age.

Miller, in year 2 broke that 20 ppg threshold and did so on still close to league average TS.

So, although there might be talks of "well trade LaMelo" I don't think it's the right decision at all. It seems clear that you have to run it back another year with those 2 being in their best shape and in the best scenario both of them become All Stars next year.

And Mark Williams is a weird case because he was supposedly "too medically bad" to join the Lakers and yet he hasn't been injured since and the #s he's put up have been amazing even if the Hornets are not good.

But what's insane is, looking up and down the roster, this team couldn't even get more than 3 guys to play 60 games out of the 71 they've had this season. Not only that, they've had 26 total guys play this year.

The FO has been horrendous at managing their roster internally, and yet they seem to always hit in the draft on guys that end up becoming studs for other teams. It makes sense since they are so geographically close to the Wizards.

I mean what is the team supposed to be next year, I guess the vision is

PG - LaMelo Ball
SG - Josh Green
SF - Brandon Miller
PF - Miles Bridges
C - Mark Williams

That doesn't look like a team that's going to win more than 35 games at best.

It's just the most bizarre team in the league, they have so many obvious NBA players and yet what is the on the court product supposed to be?

The FO seems to do an awful job at building a complete roster. Truthfully I wish they drafted Clingan last year, I think he'd fix up so many of their issues for the future.

On the bright side, they get another elite talent to add to their pool of ever rotating elite talent that fails to win anything.

[Special_Puppy]

Season murdered by season ending injuries to 3 of our best 6 players (seriously, go look at some of our lineups especially in January… major Taj Gibson minutes), so I don’t think they’re quite as bad as the horrid net rating and 18-53 record.

However, everything was bad this year. Everything. I am extremely disappointed in, quite frankly, everyone, and retain only a sliver of hope moving forward.

Let’s start preseason.

-Traded for Josh Green, a player who scored 0 total points at the Olympics. No injury or mins restriction. Zero points. Turns out that Luka made him look a lot better than he was in Dallas - he can only hit corner 3s, it’s his only offensive skill. Defense is overrated. He is a bad starter.

-drafted Tidjane Salaun. If you haven’t watched this kid play yet I envy you. He’s a car crash mixed with a train wreck. No basketball feel. No exaggeration the worst top 6 pick I’d seen in decades. He has no ability to do anything with the ball in his hands, poor BBIQ, and despite his size, cannot block shots. He does absolutely nothing well at the pro level. A terrible, terrible pick, and with Matas and Clingan on the board, an unforgivable one.

-hired Charles Lee. Now, he has been dealt a terrible hand with talent (which we’ll get to) but his offense is atrocious. There’s no movement, it’s all static and relies on perimeter isos to break down the defense and bombing 3s. We set the record for most missed 3s in a game vs the Bulls this year. Kind of sums it up. Moreover, both Miller/Ball significantly increased their 3 point volume with big efficiency drains. He doesn’t give us an edge on either end of the floor and routinely gets outcoached in any competitive situation. I don’t see what he brings to the table, aside from getting OK defensive effort from the end of the bench, I suppose.

The injuries to Mann (our only competent ball handler outside of LaMelo, out for the season in November) and Williams (our only decent pick and pop player and post defender) completely cratered a talent-starved team. Our bench is now completely awful and no one other than Ball or occasionally Bridges could create a shot. Micic did terrible before being traded. Then Miller got injured with his wrist, leaving Ball, Bridges and Williams as the only NBA-level scorers on the roster. No team can win with G League bums playing this heavy minutes.

Despite starting 6-9 we went downhill fast. Couldn’t get stops and couldn’t win games.

We then attempted to trade Mark Williams. It was a decent return but a real punch in the gut. Hornets haven’t had a big as good as him in a decade and he’s only 23. Defense can be poor due to lack of strength but give him a healthy summer in the weight room before trading. Luckily the Lakers pulled the plug. Unfortunately we acquired Nurkic from Phoenix as a salary dump. I didn’t hate that, as it netted us a first, making it (along with the Richards dump to Phoenix) actually a shrewd trade. However, this now gives us a logjam at center and portends another rough season next year. It also pushes out the one bright spot - two way Moussa Diabate who rebounds like Rodman and plays like a man on fire - significantly cutting his minutes.

All in all, though, I cannot avoid the 1A LaMelo problem. I do not think he is a championship level #1 and should not be the only initiator. No one can get to the rim consistently. That’s the offensive issue. They have attempted to make LaMelo into James Harden and he’s just not that player. He shouldn’t be breaking down defenses like a Cade Cunningham - he should play in an uptempo system like under Borrego with another ball handler. View Haliburton in Indiana as the keystone. Run him off ball more. Unfortunately, Ball and Miller regressed due to being swarmed on the perimeter and Lee’s scheme teaching them to just answer that problem by bombing bad 3s. It works for the Celtics but not us. Both have strength issues and don’t have tons of juice to the rim, but Lee’s system set them up to fail.

LaMelo had a very hot start and was absolutely awesome in November, but since the injury midseason, has since become checked out and is regressing, which tends to happen when he sees constant doubles and no one on the team can punish them. Jeff Peterson addressed this by signing Elfrid Payton. I don’t really have to say anything else.

This team has no supporting talent. Just check out a Hornets box score and you’ll laugh.

What concerns me is I don’t really trust us to get or develop talent. That’s the core issue. Why? We have a GM who cannot evaluate talent (the Salaun pick was effectively criminal, arguably the worst pick in Hornets history). We have a coach who cannot solve problems.

The only hope I see on the horizon is that we do have three talented young players and a lot of picks moving forward. Cooper Flagg could save this team. If not… prepare for another bad season.

Besides that Mrs. Lincoln how was your play

[jasonxxx102]

I have no idea what the Hornets are going to do. I just don't see any hope for them being a decent team in the near future.

LaMelo can't stay healthy, Miller is meh, Bridges and Williams are fine NBA players but there's just no team plan.

Very unfortunate for Hornets fans

[EmpireFalls]

Oh and to top it all off Miles Bridges is a domestic abuser and it really bothers me that he’s on the team.

[ConSarnit]

From a basketball standpoint the problem is all the best players are jump shooters who don't particurally play great defense. No one really pressures the rim or generates pts at the ft line on offense. They are like a homeless version of the Suns.

Front office has been trading anything of value on the roster for picks aside from LaMelo, Brandon and Miles. They seem to be committed to only building through the draft and then went out and picked the worst guy in the draft.

From a coaching standpoint we saw a shift to much higher usage from LaMelo and way more 3 pt shots. Jury is still out, but have to give the new coach a little time.

The way I see it there are two options for next year. Either you try to put some pieces we down't have around LaMelo and see if the team can get to the playoffs, or you trade LaMelo for a pick package and blow the whole thing up.

From a fan standpoint I am ready to see some actual competitive basketball. What I expect to see is a prolonged rebuild and 20 more years of losing.

I get wanting a winner but I think CHA has to take its medicine for one more year. There are way too many questions about this team. You have too much bad salary tied up to really round out the roster next year (tough to see how they’d do a Detroit style win-now pivot) and the main guys (Lamelo, Miller and Williams) are always hurt. What’s the point of vet depth if the guys who are supposed to carry the load can only play 55 games.

It seems like CHA has the core blocks for something but you just can’t trust anyone on the team. I’d play next year out with the same roster and if it’s going badly try to move Lamelo and hand the keys to Miller/2025 1st (and then probably another high 2026 1st). Outside of Miller they might need to tear the whole thing down. The only way I could maybe see a justified win-now push would be if they land Flagg and even then he’s so young he probably won’t be great until year 2 or 3.

[pipfan]

Add Flagg and things get REALLY interesting
Ball
?
Miller
Flagg
Williams
That's A LOT of talent, with some nice vet pieces, whatever Salaun is and future picks to play with

[Doctor MJ]

Similar to Washington with one big difference:

The Hornets nominally have a franchise player in LaMelo, but it really is time to stop thinking of him as a franchise player.

The good news, I suppose, is that you don't have to choose between continuing with LaMelo or tanking, because they aren't good with LaMelo.

But still, unless you get Flagg and LaMelo works really well with him, you're dealing with a guy who you're giving max money too through 2029 and you don't really have good reason to think he'll be a good fit for the next serious team you field.

[UcanUwill]

Lamelo situation reminds me of Bargnani. They insist to build around him and they will never win because of that, I don't care if Lamelo fanboy calls this a lazy take, guy is definition of losing player.

[Special_Puppy]

Add Flagg and things get REALLY interesting
Ball
?
Miller
Flagg
Williams
That's A LOT of talent, with some nice vet pieces, whatever Salaun is and future picks to play with

If that's a lot of talent they wouldn't have a -9.3 net rating https://www.pbpstats.com/team-leverage-summary/nba?Season=2024-25&Leverage=Medium,High,VeryHigh

[EmpireFalls]

Lamelo situation reminds me of Bargnani. They insist to build around him and they will never win because of that, I don't care if Lamelo fanboy calls this a lazy take, guy is definition of losing player.

The team is 2-25 without him playing.

At one point they were on a streak winning 7 of 9 games with him finishing the game. The offense is 11 points worse per 100 with him off the floor.

I’m not saying he’s the messiah but this simply is lazy analysis. If you put all the blame on LaMelo how do you explain going 2-25 without him? Seriously, open question, I would love an answer.

And moreover, what is the vision for the team without him? This is a small market that can never get any talent in free agency. Draft picks are really our only way to find a star - and LaMelo is as talented as anyone we’ve drafted in 40 years. Letting go of him, at only age 23, would be a really sad move.