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Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors

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Select one of each option (4 total questions)

Q1) Keep Front Office
47
15%
Q1) Change Front Office (who?)
32
10%
Q2) Keep Head Coach
52
17%
Q2) Change Head Coach (who?)
22
7%
Q3) Performed better than Expected
2
1%
Q3) Performed as Expected
52
17%
Q3) Performed worse than Expected
25
8%
Q4) Improving team
31
10%
Q4) Treadmill team
43
14%
Q4) Declining team
9
3%
 
Total votes: 315

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Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#1 » by Clav » Wed Apr 2, 2025 6:05 am

2nd April, 2025


Our SEVENTH team eliminated, the Toronto Raptors. Now we have our 10-teams remaining in the Eastern Conference until the play-in elimination games.


Time of death: April 01
Record at elimination: 28-48
Head coach: Darko Rajokovic

Previous threads:
Spoiler:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2446972 = #1 Jazz
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2446975 = #2 Pelicans
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2448649 = #3 Wizards
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2448862 = #4 Hornets
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2449618 = #5 Nets
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2450014 = #6 76ers



https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/yearly


Contract summary:
Ingram – signed a 3-year 120M contract after being acquired – final year is 41M PO
Quickley – 4-yr 120M
RJ Barrett – extension eligible or 2-yr at 28M per year
Poeltl – extension eligible or 2-yr 19M/yr, final year 19M PO
Boucher – extension eligible or 10M expiring
Barnes – rookie MAX 5-yr-225M signed, starts next season
Garrett Temple - UFA

Rookie Scale/minimums (varies on 2-4 years remaining):
Gradey Dick – 2-yr remain
Agbaji – extension eligible or 6M QO
Ja-Kobe Walter – 3yr remain
Jonothan Mobgo – 2yr remain
Jamal Shead – 2yr remain
Jamison Battle – non-guaranteed 2M
Orlando Robinson – rest of season minimum
Cole Swider – 10-day
Colin Castleton – 10-day

TW
Ulrich Chomche
AJ Lawson
Jared Rhoden

Dead-cap - none retained NEXT season, 15M off the books this season.

25-26 Capspace - ~11M until 1st Apron, over the cap non-tax team.


PICKS for 2025 draft:
TOR 1st
IND 2nd ??? (doesn’t seem to convey this year idk for sure)
POR 2nd


A SMALL SEASON REVIEW:
https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/tor/season/2025

The Raptors had an interesting season for sure. Toronto's form swung from the first and second half of the year. They started with lots of losses, but recently strung together some more wins before elimination. At one point in January… this team had 8 wins and 31 losses. Starting on Jan 13, when Toronto beat GSW for win #9, the team has since played to a record of 20-17 with four different win streaks of at least 3 games. They did not roll over and tank, they played hard despite not making it to the play-in games. I feel like with next season's opportunity, they can be pretty dangerous.

The trio of Quickley/Barrett/Barnes has potential. Quickley only managed 30 games with various injuries, one of which was an elbow mid-season. I feel like he’s a critical part in how the team operates offensively so his limited GP must affect the overall performance. Barnes and Barrett are very similar in raw stats upon review. Roughly 20pts and 5reb/5ast for each on their per-game averages. Now, we have to consider that next years’ team will add another career 20/5/5 guy with Brandon Ingram to the mix.

The trades have been important, so let’s recap how they panned out. Getting rid of Jalen McDaniels early in the offseason for 2 guards was a big deal. Davion Mitchell and Jamal Shead put in a lot of minutes, though Mitchell was traded later lol.

Then they traded for Ingram [which was the big Butler multi-team which included Bruce Brown and Olynyk being sent to NOLA]. TOR also acquired and bought out PJ Tucker who was stuck in LAC with no PT. TOR got a Lakers 26 2nd out of their participation, too, so that’s a pretty decent return for what Masai sent out.

Toronto has its pick and a POR second that looks to be mid-2nd round, so there’s a little room to add some more depth. One part that seems to be set is the wing Barrett/Barnes/Ingram as a 2-3-4 combo. Pretty dangerous if they get 50-60 pts from all three each night, and 20 from IQ, there's a lot of firepower talent here. How will they click defensively? Who will they target in the draft ? Jonathan Mogbo and Gradey Dick got a lot of run this year and Mogbo is a guy people should keep an eye on as a 3-D prospect - he had a great year.

How will they look next season with Ingram on the wing, and what’s your outlook on the Raps?
Cheers
\m/
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#2 » by STAT_88 » Wed Apr 2, 2025 6:35 am

They should do whatever they can to trade up to 5 and draft Maluach. Develop him behind Poeltl for a season and then flip Poeltl for picks or players.

Poeltl-Maluach
Barnes-Mogbo
Ingram-Agbaji
Barrett-Dick
IQ-Shead/Walter

With good coaching that team can fight for the 5 or 6 seed in a weak East.

If they can’t get Maluach draft Jase Richardson for guard depth behind IQ.


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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#3 » by OxAndFox » Wed Apr 2, 2025 6:51 am

The Raptors are one of the most curious cases in the NBA today. What is the goal? Will they go for POs next year? Were they going for the POs this year?
I mean you don't have BI, Quickley, Barrett, Poetl and then the youngster in Barnes on a roster and say you're rebuilding.
Some nice pieces and a decent coach, but when does that translate into something?

On a completely unrelated note I think the Raps should trade for DDR to bring him home. To allow the all time leader in many categories for the Raps, put even more room between the #1 and #2 on their all time...missed field goal list, games, field goals, FT/FTA, hitting a basket with a toe on the line, and also the scoring list. I mean he would most likely add another #1 ranking in the all time Raps list, TOs too. If he plays the last year he will smash it. Think it makes the most sense and I believe the Kings would see the nostalgic viewpoint of this and be comfortable trading him for whatever the Raps want to give. Hopefully a top 55 protected 2nd.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#4 » by KGtabake » Wed Apr 2, 2025 6:51 am

Meaningless wins post all star break.
Barnes ain't the superstar they projected him to be but he will be an allstar caliber player for years.
They need to find their main guy.

I think the Masai era must end.
He needs motives and in Toronto they need a change.

It was a very successful run, a great decade for Toronto.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#5 » by BruttoNostra » Wed Apr 2, 2025 7:10 am

Change
Keep
As expected
Treadmill

They have $156M invested in their top-5 players with neither of them being a true superstar. Not hating at all, but those top-5 are a play-in team when healthy (I'm especially low on Ingram).
They have a nice bunch of rookie contract players, but it doesn't help when they have no cap space.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#6 » by shangrila » Wed Apr 2, 2025 7:48 am

I don't understand the plan. They're paying top dollar for a mid-team. If they get lucky in the lottery, maybe their future looks better but right now they look like a 6th seed at absolute best.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#7 » by Astaluego » Wed Apr 2, 2025 9:06 am

I don't understand what direction they're going, especially after trading for Ingram, which is a repeated archetype they have.
I think they need a center who can open the floor (at least a little).
Poelt for WCJ/Goga.
WCJ has been terribly hot, but I think playing for the MAGIC has a lot to do with it (everyone's percentages are dropping there... see KCP, etc.). Select the best guard available. Jakucionis?

WCJ/Goga
Barnes/Barrett
Ingram/Dicks
Agbaji/Walter
IQ/Draft
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#8 » by Thaddy » Wed Apr 2, 2025 10:43 am

shangrila wrote:I don't understand the plan. They're paying top dollar for a mid-team. If they get lucky in the lottery, maybe their future looks better but right now they look like a 6th seed at absolute best.

They are doing a two timeline approach and have a view that it's more about environement and culture rather than raw talent when it comes to prospects and developing stars.

Astaluego wrote:I don't understand what direction they're going, especially after trading for Ingram, which is a repeated archetype they have.
I think they need a center who can open the floor (at least a little).
Poelt for WCJ/Goga.
WCJ has been terribly hot, but I think playing for the MAGIC has a lot to do with it (everyone's percentages are dropping there... see KCP, etc.). Select the best guard available. Jakucionis?

WCJ/Goga
Barnes/Barrett
Ingram/Dicks
Agbaji/Walter
IQ/Draft

Toronto under performed this year due to injuries and they've gotten better. They could have easily been a play in team this year if they wanted to go for it and not play their young players as much as they have. They've been sitting one of their best bench bigs for no reason (Boucher).

They came into this year citing development would be the priority, and it has been. They've found Battle, Shead, Mogbo, Walter, Dick, and Agbaji as good rotation level players they can use as depth next year. Another summer of development should make these guys even better. It also gives Toronto cheap assets they can use in future trades to address roster imbalances.

Adding Ingram is a good move. The net gain from the Siakam deal is Ingram, Shead, Walter, and a 2nd rounder next year. They got a similar level player that's younger and fits better with their group while adding two prospects that have starter level potential.

The primary issue they have is a lack of a back up C. They'll address this at the draft and probably take Maluach. That will give them an even better defense next year.

Poeltl / Maluach / Chomche
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Proctor

That should get them a 5th to 8th seed in the East next year. If they can get a 2nd all star it would be an even bigger success but if it's just Barnes that would be the bench mark. They would go into the off-season with several players having higher values that they can look to leverage in a trade. The next big piece to go for Toronto will likely be Barrett with his extension looming, the Raptors will have to gauge if they would rather keep one of their prospects like Dick, Agbaji, etc in the future instead and make the player they prioritize the starter.
2025 NBA Draft
Flagg | Harper | Edgecombe | Bailey | Johnson | Fears | Kon | Fleming | Maluach | Essengue | Traore | Queen | Jakucionis | Newell | Bryant
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#9 » by tsherkin » Wed Apr 2, 2025 10:57 am

About as expected. Won a little too much in the second half. Soft schedule + reasonably promising young guys playing better than expected + Masai not selling the team's soul to tank made that somewhat inevitable, I guess.

Offensive picture moving forward is concerning. Defense in the last half of the season was nice, albeit with the caveat that there were a lot of fully-tanking squads out there. Next year, with a more sensible rotation and a lot less of Scottie Barnes trying to score, we should be a competitive, low-end playoff team, assuming Ingram plays 60+ games.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#10 » by Astaluego » Wed Apr 2, 2025 11:00 am

Thaddy wrote:
shangrila wrote:I don't understand the plan. They're paying top dollar for a mid-team. If they get lucky in the lottery, maybe their future looks better but right now they look like a 6th seed at absolute best.

They are doing a two timeline approach and have a view that it's more about environement and culture rather than raw talent when it comes to prospects and developing stars.

Astaluego wrote:I don't understand what direction they're going, especially after trading for Ingram, which is a repeated archetype they have.
I think they need a center who can open the floor (at least a little).
Poelt for WCJ/Goga.
WCJ has been terribly hot, but I think playing for the MAGIC has a lot to do with it (everyone's percentages are dropping there... see KCP, etc.). Select the best guard available. Jakucionis?

WCJ/Goga
Barnes/Barrett
Ingram/Dicks
Agbaji/Walter
IQ/Draft

Toronto under performed this year due to injuries and they've gotten better. They could have easily been a play in team this year if they wanted to go for it and not play their young players as much as they have. They've been sitting one of their best bench bigs for no reason (Boucher).

They came into this year citing development would be the priority, and it has been. They've found Battle, Shead, Mogbo, Walter, Dick, and Agbaji as good rotation level players they can use as depth next year. Another summer of development should make these guys even better. It also gives Toronto cheap assets they can use in future trades to address roster imbalances.

Adding Ingram is a good move. The net gain from the Siakam deal is Ingram, Shead, Walter, and a 2nd rounder next year. They got a similar level player that's younger and fits better with their group while adding two prospects that have starter level potential.

The primary issue they have is a lack of a back up C. They'll address this at the draft and probably take Maluach. That will give them an even better defense next year.

Poeltl / Maluach / Chomche
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Proctor

That should get them a 5th to 8th seed in the East next year. If they can get a 2nd all star it would be an even bigger success but if it's just Barnes that would be the bench mark. They would go into the off-season with several players having higher values that they can look to leverage in a trade. The next big piece to go for Toronto will likely be Barrett with his extension looming, the Raptors will have to gauge if they would rather keep one of their prospects like Dick, Agbaji, etc in the future instead and make the player they prioritize the starter.

Yes, a good team, but as you say, a low ceiling and with limited possibilities to improve (at least through the Draft), which I don't fully understand because they have been quite good at choosing and developing prospects. If I were in their position, I would prioritize choosing the prospect with the highest ceiling (Queen? / Fears?), even if he has a risk of failure, before choosing the best fit.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#11 » by Thaddy » Wed Apr 2, 2025 11:08 am

Astaluego wrote:
Thaddy wrote:
shangrila wrote:I don't understand the plan. They're paying top dollar for a mid-team. If they get lucky in the lottery, maybe their future looks better but right now they look like a 6th seed at absolute best.

They are doing a two timeline approach and have a view that it's more about environement and culture rather than raw talent when it comes to prospects and developing stars.

Astaluego wrote:I don't understand what direction they're going, especially after trading for Ingram, which is a repeated archetype they have.
I think they need a center who can open the floor (at least a little).
Poelt for WCJ/Goga.
WCJ has been terribly hot, but I think playing for the MAGIC has a lot to do with it (everyone's percentages are dropping there... see KCP, etc.). Select the best guard available. Jakucionis?

WCJ/Goga
Barnes/Barrett
Ingram/Dicks
Agbaji/Walter
IQ/Draft

Toronto under performed this year due to injuries and they've gotten better. They could have easily been a play in team this year if they wanted to go for it and not play their young players as much as they have. They've been sitting one of their best bench bigs for no reason (Boucher).

They came into this year citing development would be the priority, and it has been. They've found Battle, Shead, Mogbo, Walter, Dick, and Agbaji as good rotation level players they can use as depth next year. Another summer of development should make these guys even better. It also gives Toronto cheap assets they can use in future trades to address roster imbalances.

Adding Ingram is a good move. The net gain from the Siakam deal is Ingram, Shead, Walter, and a 2nd rounder next year. They got a similar level player that's younger and fits better with their group while adding two prospects that have starter level potential.

The primary issue they have is a lack of a back up C. They'll address this at the draft and probably take Maluach. That will give them an even better defense next year.

Poeltl / Maluach / Chomche
Barnes / Mogbo / Boucher
Ingram / Agbaji / Battle
Barrett / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead / Proctor

That should get them a 5th to 8th seed in the East next year. If they can get a 2nd all star it would be an even bigger success but if it's just Barnes that would be the bench mark. They would go into the off-season with several players having higher values that they can look to leverage in a trade. The next big piece to go for Toronto will likely be Barrett with his extension looming, the Raptors will have to gauge if they would rather keep one of their prospects like Dick, Agbaji, etc in the future instead and make the player they prioritize the starter.

Yes, a good team, but as you say, a low ceiling and with limited possibilities to improve (at least through the Draft), which I don't fully understand because they have been quite good at choosing and developing prospects. If I were in their position, I would prioritize choosing the prospect with the highest ceiling (Queen? / Fears?), even if he has a risk of failure, before choosing the best fit.

Their president Masai addressed this and said the following:

There's no free agency. There's pre free agency which is the trade deadline. That's how they acquired Ingram and leveraged Bruce Brown's expiring.

This means that you have the draft and trades to get better. They had a great draft last year with Jakobe Walter, Shead, Battle, and Mogbo.

Walter has been very good to finish the season and showed why he was projected top 5 prior to his freshmen year injury. Shead is leading in several categories among bench players. Battle is the best 3pt shooting rookie. Mogbo is showing positional versatility and showing 3pt shot improvement over the year and good defensive numbers. Then you have Agbaji, Dick and RJ who also improved.

From a development standpoint the season has been successful.

Adding a lottery pick and Ingram to a borderline play in team should make them a fringe playoff lock. I'd say that's pretty good for a foreign small market that has issues retaining stars.
2025 NBA Draft
Flagg | Harper | Edgecombe | Bailey | Johnson | Fears | Kon | Fleming | Maluach | Essengue | Traore | Queen | Jakucionis | Newell | Bryant
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#12 » by tsherkin » Wed Apr 2, 2025 11:16 am

Thaddy wrote: I'd say that's pretty good for a foreign small market that has issues retaining stars.


I dunno. We had an issue with Vince 20 years ago, and Kawhi told us upfront that he wanted to go to LA, so we rented him for a title, which is fine. Otherwise, the challenge has actually been ACQUIRING stars, not so much retaining them.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#13 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Apr 2, 2025 11:51 am

shangrila wrote:I don't understand the plan. They're paying top dollar for a mid-team. If they get lucky in the lottery, maybe their future looks better but right now they look like a 6th seed at absolute best.


Name me all the teams that have gone from outside the playoffs to 1st or 2nd in the conference and competing in one season.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#14 » by Duffman100 » Wed Apr 2, 2025 11:57 am

I'm still confused why others are confused.

Masai is clearly looking at next year as a 40-47 win team if healthy. Top 6 in the east. The healthy is the big question.

Why are they then stuck? Can follow up aggregation trades not happen?

Raptors will have a lot of youth and depth. And a lot of salary pieces to play with. Along with all their 1sts.

They'll be a major player for the next disgruntled superstar.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#15 » by Chuck Everett » Wed Apr 2, 2025 12:00 pm

The Ingram and Quickley part of the equation is what's concerning to me. They need to be healthy and playing to help the Raps win ball games. Full stop. If they could just start there, that would be huge.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#16 » by kenwood3333 » Wed Apr 2, 2025 12:28 pm

If healthy this team should be a low playoff seed. But they have 2 very injured prone players. So another season finishing in the lottery should be expected.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#17 » by Godymas » Wed Apr 2, 2025 12:42 pm

Is this the most unexciting team in the NBA? I think it might be, and the league has the Nets and Jazz.

Honestly forgot they traded for Ingram at the deadline. I still think that two of their guys are really bad contracts in both RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley.

Quickley making $30M a year to barely be an average starting PG and RJ Barrett is the definition of empty stats in the NBA.

I do like the idea of Barnes and Ingram as your wings, I think that if those two were a teams #2 and #3 option, it's not a bad team. That's the issue, though, they don't have a #1 guy and I do not expect that they will have a true #1 guy anytime soon.

It's hard to say what Masai is doing here. If they draft the right guy to takeover the team in this years draft, he won't align up with Ingram at all. Is the idea to just be a treadmill team while developing a true #1?

You cannot even judge the coach correctly because of the rosters, but all signs say Darko is a good coach with an awful team.

I mean Toronto could be that "surprise" team next year and have a low playoff seed..congrats? Whatever this new era of Toronto ball is, it doesn't seem to have much "vision" imo. Like the best outcome doesn't seem particularly exciting.

And frankly, with all that money that Toronto invested into their team, expectations were they would not be in the lottery this year. Any team that is paying 3 guys that much money is intending to win now.
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#18 » by Duffman100 » Wed Apr 2, 2025 12:42 pm

kenwood3333 wrote:If healthy this team should be a low playoff seed. But they have 2 very injured prone players. So another season finishing in the lottery should be expected.


For sure Ingram, who is the other one?
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#19 » by LarsV8 » Wed Apr 2, 2025 12:48 pm

Don't really understand the vision for Toronto (and Sac)
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Re: Post Mortem #7 - Toronto Raptors 

Post#20 » by Bankai » Wed Apr 2, 2025 12:54 pm

On paper, this team should be a low seed. But I think their in a situation where they have good pieces, but the utilization isint realized.

Either the Coach isint using them right, some pieces might be redundant, or the players just arent growing as much as they should.

They remind me of the New Orleans Pelicans. Good pieces, some injuries, and just cant seem to put it together in a meaningful way.

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