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Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns

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Select one of each option (4 total questions)

Q1) Keep Front Office
3
1%
Q1) Change Front Office (who?)
59
23%
Q2) Keep Head Coach
25
10%
Q2) Change Head Coach (who?)
32
13%
Q3) Performed better than Expected
1
0%
Q3) Performed as Expected
7
3%
Q3) Performed worse than Expected
57
23%
Q4) Improving team
0
No votes
Q4) Treadmill team
2
1%
Q4) Declining team
67
26%
 
Total votes: 253

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Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#1 » by Clav » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:06 pm

10 Apr, 2025


We're moving on with our TENTH team eliminated, the Phoenix Suns. They came up short to play-in contention with the loss last night to OKC.


Spoiler:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2446972 = #1 Jazz
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2446975 = #2 Pelicans
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2448649 = #3 Wizards
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2448862 = #4 Hornets
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2449618 = #5 Nets
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2450014 = #6 76ers
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2450530 = #7 Raptors
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2451523 = #8 Spurs
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2451526 = #9 Trail Blazers


Time of death: April 09, 2025
Record at elimination: 35-45
Head coach: Mike Budenholzer

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/yearly


Contract summary:
Durant – extension eligible or 1-year 54M expiring next season
Beal – NTC, 53M, +1 57M PO (free agent in 26-27)
Booker – 53/57/61M Max through 27-28
Grayson Allen – 3yr/45 remain, final year 19M PO
Royce O’Neale – 3/30 remaining
Cody Martin – extension eligible, non-guaranteed 8.5M next season/expiring if picked up
Vasilije Micic – 8M TO
Nick Richards – non-guaranteed 5M next season, or extension eligible
Mason Plumlee – UFA
Tyus Jones – UFA
Damion Lee – UFA
Monte Morris – UFA
Bol Bol - UFA


Rookie Scale/minimums (varies on 2-4 years remaining):
Ryan Dunn – 3 years rookie scale remain
Oso Ighodaro - 3 years rookie scale remain


TW
Jalen Bridges
Collin Gillespie
TyTy Washington

Dead-cap – Paying EJ Liddel 700k for 2 more years. Paying Nassir Little 3M a year for 6 more years. Total dead cap this season was 3.8M, and will be the same next season + future transactions.

25-26 Capspace – 2nd apron team (11M above)


PICKS for 2025 draft:
CLE 1st (least favourable of CLE/MIN) via UTA
DEN 2nd (least favourable of DEN and PHI)



A SMALL SEASON REVIEW:
https://www.espn.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/phx/season/2025

Phoenix continued on with the same roster from last season’s 1st round exit, for the most part. A couple new rookies got into the action, Nas Little was waived and is being paid 6 more years to not play for PHX, and Okogie was re-signed. It began as a ‘run-it-back’ season, and even though there were needs to address, the 2nd Apron makes it incredibly hard to fix them.

Early on, things were looking pretty good for the Suns, storming out to an 8-1 record in the first 9 games. Then, well, it’s the little things, the many OT losses (SAC,POR,MEM,DEN), or getting some poor injury luck, a 3 game losing streak….one win, and then a 4 game losing streak. Consistency was just not there. The team was poor defensively and cannot shoot its way out of every game.

There have been some pretty solid wins on the resume, including Denver on Christmas, Golden St., and Cleveland late in the year, however the end of season was brutal for the Suns. Durant was relatively healthy – yet his early injury coincided with the team’s slide, and he just twisted his ankle again sending them to the offseason promptly. Beal also missed the most games of the “Big 3”, and he did the least of the three of them on-court.
Tyus Jones has helped get the offense flowing, but the team’s real need is depth and defense. That’s where rookie Ryan Dunn has helped, really playing solid on both sides of the ball. I think he has a promising career ahead of him.

Mid-season, Okogie, Nurkic, were traded. Suns acquired Cody Martin and Nick Richards from Charlotte while sending some 2nds to the Hornets. There aren’t that many picks remaining to trade for Phoenix and they are in a dire-situation with their 2nd Apron status.

The franchise attempted to trade KD at the deadline, but he was apparently not aware of it, or not on board. Beal was a hot-topic to be a part of the Jimmy Butler trade package, but Beal also publicly stated he wouldn’t waive his No-Trade-Clause for certain teams. What was at first a foregone conclusion of seeing Butler team up with KD and Booker soon evaporated as division rival GSW acquired Butler instead.

The results of that effort have made KD understandably upset, it is foreseeable that there could very well be another team paying Durant next year. With a little savvy move to get a 1st rd. pick this year, PHX will select near the end of rd 1 by now holding CLE’s pick. Good luck!

There’s an aura of mystery on how PHX works its way out of this 2nd apron tax bracket, assuages KD and other players feeling uneasy, and reworks a roster to be a contender. I’m not entirely sure how that will happen, but that’s why we lean upon you devoted fans of the Suns. How will this team look next time we see them on the court ?
Cheers
\m/
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#2 » by Bornstellar » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:10 pm

As of right now, they are in the worst position of any team in the NBA. This has to be the worst attempt at putting a superteam together ever, maybe only rivaled by the 2014 Nets. They need to completely tear everything down to the studs and start over
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#3 » by Jadoogar » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:16 pm

This is actually one of the most embarrassing seasons for a team with expectations.
KD played 62 games, Booker played 74. They can't even play the injury excuse like the Sixers. I'm not sure i see a way out. They traded a valuable pick for 3 mediocre picks with no plan in sight. They need to blow everything up but they don't even have their own picks. This might one of the most directionless teams in the league.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#4 » by Shock Defeat » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:17 pm

Legit a season from hell. The team quit on their head coach and it's glaringly obvious if you've watched any of their games as of late. Just no fight at all.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#5 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:25 pm

What a sad place for a franchise to be. After years of sucking post-Nash, they finally develop a young core set to contend for a decade, only to think short term and trade basically all of the young guys except one for old guys to get back to lottery status early.

I think the GM (Jones) and coach (Bud) have performed poorly, but if I were giving the owner (Ishbia) advice, I wouldn't fire either one because if we're honest we know that acquiring Durant & Beal was really about Ishbia, and that the Suns can't really expect to rescue the situation with a new hire. As such, I wouldn't fire Jones unless I was looking to go full rebuild and though I could get someone better for selling off assets, and I wouldn't fire another coach until I had a new team that it made sense to fit a new coach around.

I will say that while I admire the idea of keeping a franchise player (a la Booker) for life, I think the Suns have completely ruined their ability to build an appropriately aged team around Booker, so I'd be listening to offers on him too.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#6 » by jowglenn » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:26 pm

They should just tear it all down. Trade KD, trade Booker; one of those trades should involve Houston so they can get their own picks back
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#7 » by bisme37 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:27 pm

I was legitimately offended by their defensive effort down the stretch, when they should have been fighting for their playoff lives. Highest payroll in the league. Yikes.

Blow it up imo. Fire everyone, and the only guy I'm not actively trying to trade is Booker, whom I would still trade for the right return.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#8 » by Clav » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:53 pm

I tried to write this one without being acidic or overly mean in the description, but if I were a Phoenix fan I would be very upset. Beal with a max contract and NTC is a franchise's worst nightmare and could be a true avant-garde horror film.

They've sacrificed a lot of the future for Durant and also managed to make him angry to the point where they may trade KD to another team. Its very hard to be positive. I do think pumping the gas now on development of players like Dunn and Ighodaro which played well in the system, and Richards that C from Charlotte. Just try their hardest to make these guys the best they can be, they might be key players for the franchise very soon.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#9 » by MrGoat » Thu Apr 10, 2025 7:57 pm

As a fan of another team that is having a season from hell I am still puzzled by the Suns. There was no reason for it to go this badly for them this season even though there were some obvious roster flaws. There was no colossal trade deadline error to blame it on, in their current 8 game losing streak it is downright embarrassing how much they've quit. KD got caught on a hot mic joking to Luka during their game against the Lakers about how he would never be so open for shots in the playoffs and Luka responded that he had never been so open in his life, yikes. We already know KD is getting moved this offseason but the real question is about what to do with Booker. They owe their pick to Houston this season so they're not even in the Flagg sweepstakes so it may just be time to completely blow it up and get as many assets as they can back and Booker should still have massive trade value, he's the all time leading scorer for the Suns and has been there from the start which would make that a tough decision, though. I'd shop Booker but keep him if the return isn't absolutely massive
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#10 » by Marvin Martian » Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:01 pm

It's over. I know PHX is entertaining the idea of retooling around Booker, but Booker is not a number one option. Trade Booker and KD get some assets back. Let Beal finish out his contract.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#11 » by meekrab » Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:07 pm

jowglenn wrote:They should just tear it all down. Trade KD, trade Booker; one of those trades should involve Houston so they can get their own picks back

And when Houston declines to trade for overpaid old players who don't fit their core and timeline?
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#12 » by brackdan70 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:43 pm

Burn it all down and start over…let the Phoenix rise from the ashes.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#13 » by schnakenpopanz » Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:52 pm

it is not possible to get the return they need to to be competitive. houston can low ball them as they don't need durant or booker. they are as good as it gets in their timeline. will be at least another 10 year until the suns will be relevant again.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#14 » by Exp0sed » Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:06 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:Legit a season from hell. The team quit on their head coach and it's glaringly obvious if you've watched any of their games as of late. Just no fight at all.


fwiw, Bud looked and sounded completely lost out there every step of the way. honestly even his unkempt hairstyle this season just screams: "i'm not an NBA coach anymore!" haha

he looked like a cartoon\caricature of a coach this season, like a satirical sketch with him playing the role of a coach. problem is they canned the old one despite being comitteted for multiple years, so they already spent alot of $$$ on getting out of the last coach's contract, now they'll have to do it again with a team that's in shambles and can't do anything or go anywhere, even if they had the best coach in the world. so i'm guessing he'll run out his contract, no sense in buying him out

PHX are in shambles, we haven't seen a team in a shape like this at least since the Nets

too bad as I have a soft spot for PHX and it's fanbase
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#15 » by sunsbg » Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:13 pm

Nico, please save us. You need more win now players like KD.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#16 » by thelead » Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:40 pm

Trade Booker to Orlando. Thanks in advance :)
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#17 » by LarsV8 » Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:46 pm

1.) They really only one logical move left, and its not great, but it at least gets them free of the grim situation they are in now, and gives them a reasonable path forward, if not a slight head start. This is possible because they still have a couple reasonably valuable assets to pull their head above the water (Complete tear down, and reclaim their our draft picks back, and maybe a few other minor assets).

2.) The problem here is that the owner and some of the fans believe they are currently in a salvageable position, enviable even, and that they should double down again, which is only going to make things worse. (This is the silly retool around Booker scenario). This might be fueled by setting their expectations too high in a 1.) scenario, and concluding that the returns are too low to justify. There is unlikely to be a bidding war for Durant or Booker, and the "haul" they can expect is what gets them back out of the massive **** pile they are sitting in, back to just nothing.

The catastrophic scenario would be attempting option 2, and in the process losing your only opportunity to do option 1. If Booker were to decline or get injured and no longer is valuable.....good god. What if their picks get spent by Houston and end up in the hands of three different teams?

If that happens, boy oh boy, you have taken a huge gamble, with little payout and a steep price. We could be talking about years and years of an absolutely abysmal team, with zero hope of improvement. No lottery picks to collect, no young players to watch. You would have to almost exclusively build through free agency, which would be god awful, no hope of a title, probably not even playoffs.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#18 » by TFJava » Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:52 pm

Time to clean house, everyone goes, but Booker.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#19 » by OxAndFox » Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:26 pm

Scenario 1:
Fire FO - Try everything to get Bob Myers and when he ultimately says hell no, you go and get Sam Hinkie. This is to get everything in line for a rebuild if things don't work out.
Keep Coach

Transactions:
Not much you can do.
Keep Damion Lee, Plumlee min contracts. Elevate Ty Ty Washington to the roster. He will make strides over the off season IMO and become a legitimate back up PG and could be the guy to be a PG of your rebuild.
Sign: Jordan McLaughlin. 3rd stringer that is just steady and can provide some hustle. Sign Je'Sean Tate. Don't think he is getting more than the min.
Draft BPA with #29. Whoever falls. You need as much talent as possible. ESPN currently has Alex Condon so for the point of this we will go with him. Think he will be a PF in the NBA, at the very least early on. Stick with the ESPN theme and go with Bogoljub Markovic at #51. He is young and needs time, but who knows, you might have just drafted the next superstar Serbian in the 2nd round. Think this is a great 2nd round pick. Keep him overseas for this season.

You offer KD an extension and if declines then he will be moved by the deadline if the Suns aren't in a position for a title.
Trade O'Neale for Robert Williams. Big gamble there. Portland gets a vet that will be on the court at all times and will help the young wing players along.

Richards/Williams/Plumlee
KD/Condon/Ighodaro
Dunn/Tate/Martin
Booker/Allen/Lee
Beal/Washington/McLaughlin

Thin with the bigs again so you are going to need luck to stay healthy, particularly with Williams so you don't play him much in the RS and hope he is right for a PO run.
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Re: Post Mortem #10 - Phoenix Suns 

Post#20 » by OxAndFox » Thu Apr 10, 2025 10:26 pm

Scenario 2:
Fire FO - Try everything to get Bob Myers and when he ultimately says hell no, you go and get Sam Hinkie. Let Hinkie go to work. You can sell that to the fans.
Keep Coach - Let's see what Bud can do with a rebuilding roster. You just need him to keep the players in check and teach them how to be pro's.

You trade Booker to the Rockets and get as many of your picks back along with FVV.
Trade KD for the best rebuilding package on offer.
Trade Grayson and O'Neale for expiring contracts and then try and flip any contracts at next years deadline for guys that line up with Beals expiring. Head into 2027 off season with max cap space to get 2 guys in and by then you should have some

It doesn't matter about the line-up because you are there to lose games if you can get your picks back.

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