Why do people talk up Jamal Murray?

[sp6r=underrated]

Here's the facts about Jamal Murray.

1. In the last 5 years, he's missed 2 playoffs. In the 3 years he played he was good in one of em and awful in the other two runs.

He only has two good playoff runs to his name the bubble and 2023. For a guy whose been in the NBA since 2017 and whose team made the NBA 7 of the 9 years he's been in the NBA that terrible. He's not reliably healthy and when he does play he's just as liable to play bad as well.

2. His RS level of play is that of an above average guard. He only has 2 season with a BPM greater than 2 with over a 1,000 minutes played. For comparison sake Bradley Beal did it 5 times.

He's an above average, streaky guard who goes on hot runs surrounding by stretches of terrible play. Why do people act like he's this 3rd-2nd team all-nba or all star level guard?

[TheGOATRises007]

It's the Embiid and LeBron stans who love to prop him up.

[Ambrose]

To discredit Jokic

[SlimShady83]

Who, who has been talking him up?

[hugepatsfan]

He's had a couple of REALLY good playoff runs, including their title year. However, the more and more he plays the more and more those seem to be blips on the radar vs. the type of player you can reliably forecast him to be.

[HotelVitale]

He's had a couple of REALLY good playoff runs, including their title year. However, the more and more he plays the more and more those seem to be blips on the radar vs. the type of player you can reliably forecast him to be.

Yeah, people weren't inventing him being pretty dominant in some runs (and impressive in how he was doing it). I always wonder if people on the GB genuinely have terrible memories or if it's just more fun to forget stuff for the narrative trash talk buzz.

He just seems like he needs to be firing on all cylinders to play at a high level, and when he's not (cuz injuries or whatever) it can look kind of mediocre. That's been him lately.

[kazyv]

He's had a couple of REALLY good playoff runs, including their title year. However, the more and more he plays the more and more those seem to be blips on the radar vs. the type of player you can reliably forecast him to be.

i've posted this elsewhere yesterday, but that title run is clearly overrated and skewed by one series, the one vs lakers. take it away and it's really nothing out of the ordinary for a guard that gets to have the ball as often as murray does. I mean think about it. he really shot 32 ppg on 65% TS for 4 games. what does it do to his overall stats?

edit for quick maf:

194/410 on FG, 75/81 on FT for 58% TS and 522 points in total for the playoffs
48/91 on FG, 19/20 on FT for 65% TS and 130 points total in the lakers series
that leaves him with
146/319 on FG, 56/61 on FT for 57% TS and 392 points total or 24ppg for the rest of the playoffs, lakers series excluded

I have to admit, I may have overestimated the impact of the Lakers series in terms of how it would impact his total stats

just look at the stats for the year and think he's got something. and I admit, 26/6/7 on 58.6 % TS sounds pretty good. but it's all just the product of the lakers series.

go ahead, take a look. outside of the lakers series, it's the same old streaky guy that might or might not show up

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murraja01/gamelog/2023/#all_player_game_log_post

[hugepatsfan]

Just to add a little more context to my last post...

Across the 17-18, 18-19 and 19-20 regular seasons, Murray was fairly flat. But then in those 2020 bubble playoffs he exploded with an awesome run. he followed that up in the 20-21 season with his career best year and real statistical improvement from the 3 years prior. That is, up until he got hurt. He missed all of 21-22 and came back in 22-23. His regular season was fairly underwhelming, but he got better down the stretch which is totally normal for a guy coming off injury. It culminated in that awesome playoff run for him on the title.

At that point in time, adjusting for the injury setback, his timeline seemed to point to someone who had a higher ceiling. But then 23-24 was underwhelming both regular season and playoffs. Ok, fine, a blip. Now this year, with another underwhelming year, is where I think people are starting to just say ok this is who he is. His career arc of improvement, the playoff explosions and injury timelines all sort of blended to where you could talk yourself that he was really on the up and coming I think, prior to this year where you just accept he's not.

[ReggiesKnicks]

It's the Embiid and LeBron stans who love to prop him up.

Is it? I don't know about that. Murray was really freaking good in 2020 and 2023. He has been bad in the other years, but specifically 2023 he was tremendous.

[Roger Murdock]

He had two really good playoff runs. Nobody has ever had real expectations for him, so they view him as an overachiever.

He's like the ~40th - 60th best player in the league. He's had some stretches where hes like top 20ish, some stretches where hes not top 100, and some stretches where he isn't able to play at all. But because he doesnt have much responsibility or burden to carry a team theres never any real pressure on him, so when he steps up it gets noticed.

[mademan]

He's an above average starting PG who specializes in hitting tough shots who picked some of the best moments to have a hot streak.

[Cavsfansince84]

Murray wasn't good in the 2020 playoffs? For a guy who is considered to be a borderline all star he played like a top 10-12 play in both the 2020 and 2023 playoff runs. Plenty of top 10 guys don't play near as well as he did in those two. So yes he deserves criticism sometimes but its nice to have a guard who can put up 28-30ppg on good to great efficiency for entire playoff series if you are an all world center.

[Godymas]

him and Khris Middleton, the absolute minimum player to be a #2

[TwitterFingers]

He’s not consistent enough to be considered a star, but he’s good enough to be considered a borderline star.

[lessthanjake]

It’s Embiid and LeBron fans looking for a reason to downplay Jokic.

That said, it is also true that Murray has sometimes been genuinely really good in playoffs series. He’s played in 12 playoff series in his career, and he has genuinely played like an all-NBA player in 4 of them. Which is more than you’d expect from someone with his regular season profile. However, when you combine it with the fact that he missed two playoffs and has had a few playoff series where he’s been legitimately bad, it starts to look not so good.

You might actually want Murray over someone similarly good who is healthier and has less severe highs and lows though. Guys of this general level are not good enough to be the second-best player on a championship-winning team, so you really need them to play significantly above their level if you’re ever going to win a title. And at least with Murray he sometimes does that. Him being terrible or absent sometimes is bad, but if he’d played those years and been at his normal level, it’s very unlikely that that would’ve been enough to win a title IMO.

[Johnny Bball]

He's played well in 4 games. Why now? What's the problem today?

[p0peye]

Who, who has been talking him up?

Who, who gave him a max contract?

[Peregrine01]

Here's the facts about Jamal Murray.

1. In the last 5 years, he's missed 2 playoffs. In the 3 years he played he was good in one of em and awful in the other two runs.

He only has two good playoff runs to his name the bubble and 2023. For a guy whose been in the NBA since 2017 and whose team made the NBA 7 of the 9 years he's been in the NBA that terrible. He's not reliably healthy and when he does play he's just as liable to play bad as well.

2. His RS level of play is that of an above average guard. He only has 2 season with a BPM greater than 2 with over a 1,000 minutes played. For comparison sake Bradley Beal did it 5 times.

He's an above average, streaky guard who goes on hot runs surrounding by stretches of terrible play. Why do people act like he's this 3rd-2nd team all-nba or all star level guard?

Because when Murray is on he can look like Curry-lite with his shot-making. In reality though, his shooting is so inconsistent that those games where he does look like Curry-lite are few and far between. When his shot isn't falling, he doesn't have much else to fall back on. He has below average quickness and doesn't have a great motor so he can't pressure the rim and can be bottled up by ball pressure. He also has a tendency to pound the crap out of the ball and dribble into tough shots when the obvious thing to do is to get the ball to 15.

[Tacoma]

In 2020, Murray led the team in scoring and assists to help DEN make the WCF. Then in 2023 he played a really good robin to Jokic to win the Championship, an accomplishment that Jokic could not have achieved without Murray. He was talked up at the time for good reason.

Since then, he has come back down to earth and at this point today, who exactly are the people talking up Jamal Murray? I reckon no one - or at least no one notable - and it's a false premise & the real agenda of this thread is to have people talk down on Jamal Murray, which is what is happening.

[Duke4life831]

I think it’s a mix of two things.

1. Reading the board on here lately, seems like some fan bases just have an anti Jokic mentality. To be fair I think that’s fine, certain fan bases having a negative bias towards a player is very normal. I don’t think I’ve ever viewed a UNC or Packers/Bears player without an obvious negative bias.

2. I think some people value playoffs way too much. I know that sounds crazy, but I think this is a good example of this. I think many took what was essentially a 39 game sample (his two outstanding playoff runs) and chalked him up to being a star because of that. While overlooking 550+ games of regular season and his other playoff runs, where he never looked close to being an all star. And again another thing to remember with him. He has the easiest job in the league. He gets to be the #2 option playing off of Jokic. And he gets to be average during the regular season then turn it up in the playoffs. Most #2s don’t get to do that.

With all that said though, I will acknowledge that I think the sentiment of Murray being a “star” has begun to die down. I think the majority of people are kind of at the point where they recognize Murray can go off in any given game. But he’s just so inconsistent. And those two playoff runs seem more like a random blip on the radar, than what he actually is as a player.