RealGM

Say that Embiid and Shai both had their MVPS in the same season

Who wins it?

Both barely edged out Jokic.

SGA. He actually had a case as being better than Jokic based off the metrics (led him in most impact stats, albeit marginally) whereas Jokic clearly outpaced Embiid in the stat category.

The one who didn’t have to basically beg for the award.

A better argument would be Embiid 2024 before the injury, where he was the clear runaway MVP and best player over both Shai and Jokic that year.

Embiid was putting up the most dominant season from the center position since Shaq.

What more sad about Embidd is that fact Philly wasted 2 1st overall picks around an MVP talent. What they could have built around him. Maybe his career would look a lot different had the talent around him panned out.

In the void? Besides hating the guy, I don't get how you can't vote for Embiid.
And this comes from someone who thinks Shai's MVP is totally legit and Joel's questionable at least.

But that's only because TEAM RECORD.

Look, I'm not saying Embiid is a better (meaning skilled, talented, whatever) player than SGA. But he's a 7 footer. Just because of height and size he could do things that Shai cannot.

Rebounding way more, scoring with higher efficiency and being much more impactful defensively.
Shai avgs 2 more assists, that's all. It doesn't compensate for all of the above.

Optms wrote:A better argument would be Embiid 2024 before the injury, where he was the clear runaway MVP and best player over both Shai and Jokic that year.

Embiid was putting up the most dominant season from the center position since Shaq.

No he wasn't.

Shaq was putting up 30ppg on 60% FG dunking on fools inside the paint... he was automatic dunk. 30ppg on less than 20 shots.

Shaq was also grabbing 15 rebounds or more most nights and was a rim protector averaging 2.5 blocks or more while also dishing 3.5 apg.

Shaq was dominant... Embiid was a foul merchant. 300 pound big man who fall down after bumping with a 240 pound player 4 inches shorter.

Embiid was dominating by putting players on foul trouble and trying to play like a guard with his long range shots. Very different from Shaq.

Shaisis.

Much better RS record, similar impact metrics, similar boxscore production.

Jokic had a better season in 2025 than in 2023 (regular season).

But Shai deserved to win MVP this year (Jokic would have been a deserved winner as well) while Embiid didn't deserve to win over Jokic.

So Shai for me.

The Master wrote:Shaisis.

Much better RS record, similar impact metrics, similar boxscore production.

1st is true, from the first comma is not unless you think -regarding boxscore- that 2 more assists are pretty much equal to 5 more rebounds.
Plus, Joel scored half an inch more -anecdotical- but with a 2% better TS% -relevant-.

Rubios wrote:

The Master wrote:Shaisis.

Much better RS record, similar impact metrics, similar boxscore production.

1st is true, from the first comma is not unless you think -regarding boxscore- that 2 more assists are pretty much equal to 5 more rebounds.
Plus, Joel scored half an inch more -anecdotical- but with a 2% better TS% -relevant-.

31.4 PER and 9.2 BPM vs 30.7 PER and 11.5 BPM, this is what I meant by similar boxscore production. His similar on/off numbers (+11 vs +10) are also more impressive on 68W team vs 54W team, so I guess my assumption that their impact metrics are similar is also wrong, pretty sure that Shai scales better in these EPM or LEBRON metrics in these respective seasons (6.7 vs 5.4 in LEBRON from what I see).

Anyway, SGA also played 10 more games, this ends a discussion here.

The Master wrote:

Rubios wrote:

The Master wrote:Shaisis.

Much better RS record, similar impact metrics, similar boxscore production.

1st is true, from the first comma is not unless you think -regarding boxscore- that 2 more assists are pretty much equal to 5 more rebounds.
Plus, Joel scored half an inch more -anecdotical- but with a 2% better TS% -relevant-.

31.4 PER and 9.2 BPM vs 30.7 PER and 11.5 BPM, this is what I meant by similar boxscore production. His similar on/off numbers (+11 vs +10) are also more impressive on 68W team vs 54W team, so I guess my assumption that their impact metrics are similar is also wrong, pretty sure that Shai scales better in these EPM or LEBRON metrics in these respective seasons (6.7 vs 5.4 in LEBRON from what I see).

Anyway, SGA also played 10 more games, this ends a discussion here.

Fair point.

I find value in advanced stats, sure. It's just that BPM and LEBRON depend on the team as a whole. I find PER is the most useful and "closer to the truth" one.

And if the non-advanced boxscore is not razor close, sometimes just looking at TS%, AST/TO ratio* and... eye test, is more than enough.

*And this one favors Shai by some margin, so another bucket for you.

Embiid only got it because he went crying to the media. They awarded him out of pity

Answer is SGA

Embiid MVP season is underrated on this board, due to how hated he is, which is understandable.
In the end, while he didn't have the advanced stats Jokic had, his scoring volume and efficiency was just insane, there is no player in NBA history that has done 33+ PPG and 65%+ TS combined. While part of that is how well he drew fouls, so what? it's a skill and part of the game and he was a master of that. What is never mentioned is how Jokic had the lowest scoring volume out of last 5 seasons in 2022-2023 season, that also helped him have mega insane efficiency, true, but MVP has always valued scoring a lot. Shai on the other hand, had volume scoring almost the same as Embiid this year.
I think both players would've had a solid argument, but I would go with Shai, because there is a main difference, Nuggets didn't have a better record than Sixers in 2023, whereas Thunder have an amazing 68-14 record.

Shai, it's not really close...
Jokic this year was better than Embiid MVP and he lost to Shai with a healthy margin in voting.
SGA had better narrative, best player and offensive engine of a historically great team, not just best team in the league.
Better cumulative stats, BPM of 11.3 for a guard is insane, 2016 Curry is the only guard season to surpass this, very slightly so, Harden never reached his mark even at his highest peaks he got 11, Luka peak was 10 in 2024.
Better impact metrics, EPM of 7.6 Vs 5.6, EPM of 7.6 is also very rare, better than 2016 Steph.

jokic

Optms wrote:A better argument would be Embiid 2024 before the injury, where he was the clear runaway MVP and best player over both Shai and Jokic that year.

Embiid was putting up the most dominant season from the center position since Shaq.

Embiid had one of the most manufactured cherry picked seasons anyone's ever had. He played 2/3s of his games at home and made sure to play the weaker teams in the league on the road. It was not close to the most dominant season ever.

Peak Brunson wrote:Embiid MVP season is underrated on this board, due to how hated he is, which is understandable.
In the end, while he didn't have the advanced stats Jokic had, his scoring volume and efficiency was just insane, there is no player in NBA history that has done 33+ PPG and 65%+ TS combined. While part of that is how well he drew fouls, so what? it's a skill and part of the game and he was a master of that. What is never mentioned is how Jokic had the lowest scoring volume out of last 5 seasons in 2022-2023 season, that also helped him have mega insane efficiency, true, but MVP has always valued scoring a lot. Shai on the other hand, had volume scoring almost the same as Embiid this year.
I think both players would've had a solid argument, but I would go with Shai, because there is a main difference, Nuggets didn't have a better record than Sixers in 2023, whereas Thunder have an amazing 68-14 record.

Nash, Magic MVPs say different