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So I've been thinking about this team, the way they played on the court, and their legacy.

I took the period from 2012-2016 when the team was a contender.







Both stars' volume stats dropped a lot when they were on the court together and efficiency dropped as well.

In terms of the success of the lineups, the Thunder were marginally better with both on the court (+9.8) than with just Durant on the court (+8.4).

Although it's interesting that with both on the court, they got very little help from the rest of the supporting cast. And the rest of the cast actually had a negative impact on offense (-1.2). It's not that surprising IMO when considering that Ibaka was nothing special on offense and apart from one season of pre-prime Harden in 2012 and an old Derek Fisher who was a fringe rotation player by that point, they had no one who could shoot the ball when they passed it out.

So here are some questions that I've been pondering:

1) How many positive impact players did that team have outside of Durant and Westbrook? I'm only certain about 2012 Harden and Ibaka. Maybe Adams for a couple of seasons.

2) How well did the pieces fit? Talking about Durant and Westbrook fit but also the lack of shooting and potentially other factors.

3) Did this team ultimately underachieve all things considered?

Presti probably looks back at the way those teams played and fit together and cringes.

I think that after all these years we can see that they lacked a clear leader. I guess you could point to Fisher or....uh...Perkins maybe. But Durant, Westbrook and Harden have all proven not to be the best at leading a team and quite selfish in the way they play.

LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

GiannisAnte34 wrote:LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

CoLlUsIoN!!1

Basically a clone of next years Rockets team, great size, defense, rebounding, but can't win because of no shooting outside of KD

GiannisAnte34 wrote:LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

Sorry, where did OP mention LeBron?

Westbrook was too wild and aggressive/out of control

KD was usually a playoff dropper (not huge but noticeable). His handles were also turnover prone

Westbrook-Durant thunder were unlucky because Westbrook got hurt in the 1st round of the 2013 playoffs and Durant missed the 2015 playoffs...most people tend to forget that.

1993Playoffs wrote:Westbrook was too wild and aggressive/out of control

KD was usually a playoff dropper (not huge but noticeable). His handles were also turnover prone

Westbrook had to be wild and aggressive. Outside of him or KD, they had nobody who could create anything. That was their offense. By the end of it they were starting Andre Roberson at SG, who shot 25% on his open 3s that defense didn't consider closing out on, he also couldn't dribble a ball while guarded, or in the halfcourt at all, he couldn't ATTEMPT and pull up jumper or shot on the move off the dribble, and was scared to go to the FT line because he was comically bad at it. They started centers with no range (Perkins and Adams) as well. Perkins couldn't even dunk a dump off pass. Their supporting cast and spacing were a joke, especially with shooting being Russ' main weakness and him having GOAT ability to collapse a defense into the paint, as he got downhill better than anyone outside of LeBron that I can think of.

TheGeneral99 wrote:Westbrook-Durant thunder were unlucky because Westbrook got hurt in the 1st round of the 2013 playoffs and Durant missed the 2015 playoffs...most people tend to forget that.

Yes, they had a few postseason runs wiped out due to injuries and also played in an era with some all time great teams: Heatles, Spurs, Warriors. Did they make mistakes yeah, and choosing Westbrook over Harden (or trying harder to keep Harden at all costs) is a big what if, but it’s pretty unlucky that that team never won a title between 2012 and 2016. Also important to note that they were even better in the RS in 2013 after trading Harden than they were in 2012

GiannisAnte34 wrote:LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

People are so simple minded when it comes to ring counting. SGA's thunder had great leadership but KD's Thunder didn't because SGA's team won a ring. Dude, KD's team played the HEAT. Lebron at his absolute BEST. Prime Wade, Prime Bosh, their second year together. SGA's Thunder wouldn't beat that team either. SGA got to play the 50 win Pacers. Haliburton and Siakam. No shade those guys but you can't compare them. Yet nobody even takes that into account. It's just 'count dem rings!' 'they had the heart of a champion!' It's kindergarten-level analysis.

Djoker wrote:So I've been thinking about this team, the way they played on the court, and their legacy.

I took the period from 2012-2016 when the team was a contender.



Both stars' volume stats dropped a lot when they were on the court together and efficiency dropped as well.

In terms of the success of the lineups, the Thunder were marginally better with both on the court (+9.8) than with just Durant on the court (+8.4).

Although it's interesting that with both on the court, they got very little help from the rest of the supporting cast. And the rest of the cast actually had a negative impact on offense (-1.2). It's not that surprising IMO when considering that Ibaka was nothing special on offense and apart from one season of pre-prime Harden in 2012 and an old Derek Fisher who was a fringe rotation player by that point, they had no one who could shoot the ball when they passed it out.

So here are some questions that I've been pondering:

1) How many positive impact players did that team have outside of Durant and Westbrook? I'm only certain about 2012 Harden and Ibaka. Maybe Adams for a couple of seasons.

2) How well did the pieces fit? Talking about Durant and Westbrook fit but also the lack of shooting and potentially other factors.

3) Did this team ultimately underachieve all things considered?

westbrook kd duo was the most iconic duo of it's era, second to the splash bros

kd was quoted as saying "we are getting YOUNGER not better." referencing okc building from the draft rather than making trades. so basically, okc didn't hit it's ceiling, by kd's accounting. they drafted a lot of players we all know, prolly cuz they've all gone on to have a career in the nba

the diff between that okc and the current okc was THAT westbrook team was an anomaly. they were the youngest since walton's blazers in an era when the spurs and lebron(and lakers, mavs,celts before them) were running the league

the current okc is young IN A LEAGUE THAT IS ALSO YOUNG or moving to youth.
so presti's time back then was yet to come. he came from the spurs who were built organically and had since been doing so for 20yrs. it's just that now is his time when back then,,,it wasn't

so here's my hot take. given that okc (and later gsw) was the best young team in the nba, if the environment back then 15yrs ago was as it is today we might have been seeing 20yr okc dynastic lean much like the spurs, or,,,given presti's history, okc might be at the door of something similar right now

if so,,presti is a goat genius gm/exec

Saints14 wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:Westbrook-Durant thunder were unlucky because Westbrook got hurt in the 1st round of the 2013 playoffs and Durant missed the 2015 playoffs...most people tend to forget that.

Yes, they had a few postseason runs wiped out due to injuries and also played in an era with some all time great teams: Heatles, Spurs, Warriors. Did they make mistakes yeah, and choosing Westbrook over Harden (or trying harder to keep Harden at all costs) is a big what if, but it’s pretty unlucky that that team never won a title between 2012 and 2016. Also important to note that they were even better in the RS in 2013 after trading Harden than they were in 2012

Yep their losses were against the 2011 mavs, 2012 heat, 2014 spurs and 2016 warriors. Kind of a level up from the competition the over this last 5 years. They were so good in 2013 with Kmart at SG. Then they decided they didn't need an offensive threat there shortly after with the Roberson era. They would've won in 2013 had Russ not gotten hurt. Also were really hampered in the series with the 2014 spurs due to Ibakas injury. It couldve gone different with him at 100%. KD and Russ were that good.

PistolPeteJR wrote:

GiannisAnte34 wrote:LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

Sorry, where did OP mention LeBron?

The discussion is about the KD/Westbrook iteration of the Thunder and whether they underachieved is it not? He made a valid connection that they would have won had it not been for LeBron colluding and forming a super team. The point being that if this current Thunder team had to face a Miami Heat team with a prime LeBron and Wade as well, they probably wouldn't have won a championship. Do you even understand the premise of this thread?

DirtyDez wrote:Presti probably looks back at the way those teams played and fit together and cringes.

yeah keeping harden and trading Westbrook instead might have won them a few tbh. KD needed a PG that looked to find him over getting his own shot. teamming up with Kyrie was also a mistake imo although they would have won that year Kyrie got hurt.

OKC's FO and coaching was incompetent. They let Harden go. They didn't add shooting. And they let Westbrook hog the ball. It was blatant.

10-11: lost conf finals to the Dirk/Mavs team that upset the Hear
11-12: lost to the Heatles in finals
12-13: Westbrook got injured 1st round; they lost 2nd round
13-14: Lost conf. finals to the Duncan/Kawhi Spurs on their revenge tour
14-15: Durant gets injured, they missed playoffs
15-16: lose conf. finals to 72 win Warriors

Sure, there were flaws, but they kind of just rant into some buzz saws and bad luck. They had a 6 year run. 3 times they lost to teams most consider among the handful of best teams in the last 25 years (Duncan Spurs, Curry Warriors, Lebron Heat). Twice they had a star injured for the playoffs. I guess you can say the Dirk/Mavs loss was bad the same way it was for the Heat to lose it in the finals, but it was their first time going that far in the playoffs as a young team.

LegendOfSalmons wrote:

PistolPeteJR wrote:

GiannisAnte34 wrote:LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

Sorry, where did OP mention LeBron?

The discussion is about the KD/Westbrook iteration of the Thunder and whether they underachieved is it not? He made a valid connection that they would have won had it not been for LeBron colluding and forming a super team. The point being that if this current Thunder team had to face a Miami Heat team with a prime LeBron and Wade as well, they probably wouldn't have won a championship. Do you even understand the premise of this thread?

I'm not sure you understand the premise of the thread actually. If memory serves me correctly, the Durant/Westbrook duo were together for more than just 2012, and as per OP, he "took the period from 2012-2016 when the team was a contender", not just 2012.

Again, where did OP mention LeBron?

Effigy wrote:

GiannisAnte34 wrote:LeBron colluded to build a super team, otherwise the Thunder would win the year they lost to the Heat

People are so simple minded when it comes to ring counting. SGA's thunder had great leadership but KD's Thunder didn't because SGA's team won a ring. Dude, KD's team played the HEAT. Lebron at his absolute BEST. Prime Wade, Prime Bosh, their second year together. SGA's Thunder wouldn't beat that team either. SGA got to play the 50 win Pacers. Haliburton and Siakam. No shade those guys but you can't compare them. Yet nobody even takes that into account. It's just 'count dem rings!' 'they had the heart of a champion!' It's kindergarten-level analysis.

I think we can safely say now that Durant is not a great leader, and it has nothing to do with who the Thunder played in the finals. KD was unhappy and pouting and not getting along with teammates while he was winning rings with the Warriors.

He used a burner account to criticize Westbrook.

The situation in Brooklyn was a mess.

His body language and commitment to defense and defensive communication with Phoenix was terrible this year.