Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
That career TS 51.9% is awful (shooting percentages 43.5%/33.8%/74.6%).
Even during his peak in Orlando, he had a poor TS of 53.7%
Even during his peak in Orlando, he had a poor TS of 53.7%
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
What does purest shooter mean?
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
- GeorgeMarcus
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
In his best/highest volume season he shot 56.4 TS%, which doesn't sound great by today's standards but was solidly above average at the time. Not only in terms of league average but even more so when taking into account perimeter players vs bigs.
Not to say he was some uber efficient volume scorer but he wasn't inefficient either. His post-injury years hurt his career averages pretty substantially.
Not to say he was some uber efficient volume scorer but he wasn't inefficient either. His post-injury years hurt his career averages pretty substantially.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
- NO-KG-AI
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
DelAbbot wrote:That career TS 51.9% is awful (shooting percentages 43.5%/33.8%/74.6%).
Even during his peak in Orlando, he had a poor TS of 53.7%
His peak in Orlando was during a year when league averahe TS% was 51.9%, and his volume was massive. 32 per game seems high but not abnormal today, but there were about 2/3 the amount of 20+ and 25+ scorers as there are today. Teams were averaging 95 points per game, over 18 points less.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
- junot111
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
anytime somebody says "pure" it means to disregard stats and focus on aesthetics. He could score at all three levels and made it look easy, almost effortless.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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- Sixth Man
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
it's one of those, you'd have to watch it to know it.
but I can guarantee you that if you watch it along with knowing the context of the game at the time, you would think he is too
but I can guarantee you that if you watch it along with knowing the context of the game at the time, you would think he is too
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
TS% isn’t a real number. It’s some made-up math that boosts 3PT% and throws FT% in there for no reason. It’s not a number found in nature. Look at FG% and adjust for the era like a normal person.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
RIP magnumt--you're literally why I'm still here on these boards.
RIP The Hater--keep up the good fight in the great beyond.
RIP The Hater--keep up the good fight in the great beyond.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
DelAbbot wrote:That career TS 51.9% is awful (shooting percentages 43.5%/33.8%/74.6%).
Even during his peak in Orlando, he had a poor TS of 53.7%
His jumpshooting stroke looked really Aesthetically Amazing too look at but not necessarily accurate stats wise.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
Because it was a clearly different game back in those days.
There is a reason why a lot of fans from the late 90s-00s aren’t fans of the product of the NBA anymore. It’s a drastically different game.
Not saying one is better than the other, that’s all personal preference. But yes the difference between how the game is played today vs then is drastic.
The Kobe vs McGrady 3-4 year stretch was a blast to watch. What those guys were doing against those defenses and the style of offense that was being played at the time was just something you had to watch to understand.
There is a reason why a lot of fans from the late 90s-00s aren’t fans of the product of the NBA anymore. It’s a drastically different game.
Not saying one is better than the other, that’s all personal preference. But yes the difference between how the game is played today vs then is drastic.
The Kobe vs McGrady 3-4 year stretch was a blast to watch. What those guys were doing against those defenses and the style of offense that was being played at the time was just something you had to watch to understand.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
- Airmiess
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
Spacing and bad shot selection. Everything is different now.
They used to take foot on the line 2 pointers on purpose in his era..
They used to take foot on the line 2 pointers on purpose in his era..
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
junot111 wrote:anytime somebody says "pure" it means to disregard stats and focus on aesthetics. He could score at all three levels and made it look easy, almost effortless.
I always thought it meant the ability to score from anywhere on the court.
Some elite guys can only score in select areas of the court. And there are even more elite players who cannot even create offense once their spots are taken away by the defense.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
Tracy McGrady was incredibly overrated because he played at a time when box-scores was all people had and he lead a league bereft of scoring in PPG twice.
The man started fewer playoff games than a currently 23-year-old Anthony Edwards. That should tell you everything about which tier he was as a player in his prime.
The man started fewer playoff games than a currently 23-year-old Anthony Edwards. That should tell you everything about which tier he was as a player in his prime.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
Stop using advance stats all the time, and watch the game. If you sit down and watch his peak (2000-07) and tell me he wasn't one of the most easiest fluid scores you have ever seen them im not sure what to tell you. Just watch some highlights and it should tell you everything you need to know.
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
3ddman23 wrote: If you sit down and watch his peak (2000-07) and tell me he wasn't one of the most easiest fluid scores you have ever seen them im not sure what to tell you.
How do you even quantify "easiest fluid scorer"?
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
3ddman23 wrote:Stop using advance stats all the time, and watch the game. If you sit down and watch his peak (2000-07) and tell me he wasn't one of the most easiest fluid scores you have ever seen them im not sure what to tell you. Just watch some highlights and it should tell you everything you need to know.
This is basically a whine. The numbers actually speak to McGrady's peak being quite strong, so stop using threads like this as a platform to piss and moan about numbers which undercut the subjective reality you prefer.
==
With respect to McGrady... his aesthetics were awesome, as were his box score averages. And he was bootstrapping some truly wretched rosters in Orlando. Then he dorked his back, and he went to a relatively thin Houston team where he and Yao were both routinely plagued with injuries.
But that single-season peak in the 02-03 season was very impressive by basically any measure, basic or advanced, out there. He was killing it. It was a little atypical for him to be able to shoot the three that well, but he'd always been deadly in transition, had handles, had some post game, had a really nice mid-range game, etc. And his prime was also the slowest era of basketball we've seen. He's also an underrated playmaker.
McGrady's career average is also influenced a lot by his post-injury years and decline phase. He struggled to get his legs into his shot a lot after his back started to go, which is common enough, and that really hurt him, but he was still able to do quite well at getting to the rim for his era.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
Airmiess wrote:Spacing and bad shot selection. Everything is different now.
They used to take foot on the line 2 pointers on purpose in his era..
Mostly this.
In his career, 33.6% of McGrady's shots were 2PAs from 16+ feet. That's a comical distribution by modern standards. In KD's first four seasons, he took 28.4% of his FGAs from that range; subsequently that percentage dropped to 16.1% which is still extremely high (AE, Shai and Luka are all well under 10%). And a much higher proportion of KD's long 2's today are wide open because the defense is willing to give up that shot whereas McGrady was not only taking an absurdly high volume of long 2's, they were more closely contested.
But McGrady's low career efficiency was also because his prime was unusually short. He was a raw 18 year old when he entered the league and by age 26 his prime was over thanks to a series of injuries to his back, shoulder and knee. Yet more than 1/3 of his career minutes come from 26 onward during which his TS% dropped to .499. His TS% from his short prime (2001-2005) was .535 which was above average for that era.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
Orlando McGrady in the playoffs:
32.0 points per game
.441 field goal %
.315 three point %
.774 free throw %
10.6 free throw attempts per game!
15 playoff games
So he's SGA basically... in this year's playoffs SGA averaged less PPG, lower 3p%, higher fg%, higher ft% but less ft attempts.
32.0 points per game
.441 field goal %
.315 three point %
.774 free throw %
10.6 free throw attempts per game!
15 playoff games
So he's SGA basically... in this year's playoffs SGA averaged less PPG, lower 3p%, higher fg%, higher ft% but less ft attempts.
my predictions https://voca.ro/1l6miOPvyl4U
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
DelAbbot wrote:That career TS 51.9% is awful (shooting percentages 43.5%/33.8%/74.6%).
Even during his peak in Orlando, he had a poor TS of 53.7%
Simplest way to figure it out, look up the shooting percentages of some of the other high volume scorers during his peak (AI, Kobe, Paul Pierce, Steve Francis, Antawn Jamison, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis, Jerry Stackhouse) there you find your answer.
Or just look up Antoine Walker. Dude made the All Star team in 02-03 while shooting .388 from the field, .323 from 3 and .615 from the FT line and was 7th overall in Field Goal Attempts and 2nd in 3pt Attempts.
Or to summarize his career:
Since 1979-80, Antoine Walker has the worst true shooting percentage when attempting 15.0+ field goals per game, at 48.4 percent.
McGrady is 11th on that list and the majority of player in the top 20 played in that era. Reason being that it was still iso dominant, the lowest scoring period in the modern history of the league with a heavy focus on defense and star players taking more 3s, while not being great 3 point shooters.
Just as a comparsion, between 02/03 and 06/07 McGrady averaged between 5 to 7.7 3 point attempts each season, Reggie Miller only averaged more than 6 once in his career and had less than 5 attempts in 10 of his 18 seasons. Glen Rice never averaged more than 5.6 and only reached 5 attempts in 5 of 15 seasons. Those 2 are arguably the 2 star players that were associated the most with 3 point shooting in the 90s, so McGrady was kind of part of the first generation of really high volume shooting 3 point stars, despite most of them not being outstanding 3 point shooters. That of course has a big impact on his TS averages.
Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
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Re: Why is Tracy McGrady one of purest scorers despite low efficiency (TS 51.9%)
DelAbbot wrote:That career TS 51.9% is awful (shooting percentages 43.5%/33.8%/74.6%).
Even during his peak in Orlando, he had a poor TS of 53.7%
Did you see that Orlando team?
Mike Miller was his sidekick. That's how bad those teams were. Tmac had to shoot a lot just for them to be competitive.