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Luka, LeBron, Reaves, Ayton.

Luka is Luka. Top 5 player, generational offensive guy.

LeBron is still LeBron. Not what he was, but still an all-time great.

Reaves keeps improving, playmaking, shot creation, clutch gene, he's putting up 20 points a game as the third option. That usually translates to a 27 point guy on his own team. Brunson before his breakout season wasn't putting up nearly those numbers with Luka.

Ayton finally in a role where he doesn’t have to be the guy, but can dominate as a 3rd/4th option. Number 1 pick, can easily give you 20/10 whenever he wants to.

This isn’t the same as the Big 3 eras we’ve seen before. This feels more balanced across all positions, you got guys for playmaking, scoring, size, shooting, interior/outside. Everyone here can take over a game in their own way.

You could argue KD’s Warriors had a Big 4 (Steph, KD, Klay, Dray), but IMO Dray was more of a super role player than a star scorer. I guess he'd a big 4 on GSW, but not anywhere else.

I can see an argument for calling them a big 3 if you don't think Ayton qualifies. But Ayton is one of the better 4th options we've seen, so relative to his position on the Lakers hierarchy I think it qualifies him as BIG.

Not saying it's the best team ever, but this is the first time I’ve looked at a roster and thought that’s not a Big 3. That’s a Big 4.

What do you think?

Update:

God Squad wrote:
To answer the question, the Celtics had KG, Ray, Paul, and Rondo.

To be fair, can't argue with that, Lakers definitely aren't the 'first' then. My bad so I'm changing the thread title.

So I guess the question is, are they a big 4 at all?

What are we considering BIG these days?

This is why us Laker fans get a bad rap

If this is a big 4...every team ever has had one.

JB2 wrote:This is why us Laker fans get a bad rap

He's a Mavs troll, don't fall for it.

I can see an argument for calling them a big 3 and 1/2 if you don't think Ayton qualifies. Reaves is clearly a star, and if we consider Kyrie/Brunson pieces of a big 3, then so is Reeves. But Ayton is one of the best 4th options of all time, so relative to his position on the Lakers hierarchy I think it qualifies him as BIG.

Lakers In 5 wrote:

JB2 wrote:This is why us Laker fans get a bad rap

He's a Mavs troll, don't fall for it.

No, haven't been a Mavs fan since Luka left, although I might start watching their games again next season since they have a really interesting roster there.

If this is considered a "Big 4" then the Lakers are cooked. LeBron is old now, and Ayton has always been a bum.

God Squad wrote:If this is considered a "Big 4" then the Lakers are cooked. LeBron is old now, and Ayton has always been a bum.

Spoiler:

Plus, the Celtics had KG, Ray, Paul, and Rondo.

Yeah, I forgot about the Celtics. They definitely count... Anyone else come to mind?

Good grief.

Ayton is not a big anything except in his own mind. Reaves is a solid starter and that is all.

Might want to delete this.

JRoy wrote:Good grief.

Ayton is not a big anything except in his own mind. Reaves is a solid starter and that is all.

Might want to delete this.

Ayton going to look like semi-washed Shaq this year, book it. And that's a compliment, cuz you could split Shaq in 2 and have both of halves part of a big 2.

I remember when trolling was supposed to be convincing

UglyBugBall wrote:

God Squad wrote:If this is considered a "Big 4" then the Lakers are cooked. LeBron is old now, and Ayton has always been a bum.

Spoiler:

Plus, the Celtics had KG, Ray, Paul, and Rondo.

Yeah, I forgot about the Celtics. They definitely count... Anyone else come to mind?

There has been alot based on your standards. I'm using Reeves as the cutoff guy.

I'm just doing this off memory of big 4s that meet your standards. And I'm sure I'm missing some:
Bird-McHale-Parish-Walton
Magic-Kareem-Worthy-Scott
Jordan-Pippen-Rodman-Kukoc
Duncan-Manu-Parker-Barry
Kawhi-Duncan-Manu-Parker
Curry-Durant-Green-Thompson
Nash-Marion-A'mare-Johnson
Dirk-Nash-Finley-NVE
Shaq-Penny-Grant-Anderson

If you're right that this is a serious Big 4 the Lakers should be 55+,5+ SRS next year. And even then this is far from the first big 4. I'm missing a lot of pairings that probably qualify.

I got a chuckle out of it.

UglyBugBall wrote:

God Squad wrote:If this is considered a "Big 4" then the Lakers are cooked. LeBron is old now, and Ayton has always been a bum.

Spoiler:

Plus, the Celtics had KG, Ray, Paul, and Rondo.

Yeah, I forgot about the Celtics. They definitely count... Anyone else come to mind?

It entirely depends on what you consider a big 4. You're Lakers team doesn't pass the eye or smell test, to me.

Would you consider the 2019 Raptors a big 4 or 5?

Lowry (6x all star, 3rd all NBA)
Kawhi (obvious)
Serge (3x First team defense)
Pascal (3x all star, 2x all NBA)
M.Gasol ( 3x all star, multiple all NBA teams)

I wouldn't, but 2 way players across the board, all having multiple All-Star appearances or all NBA teams. With that said, my interpretation of a "Big 3" is 3 current all-stars. Lakers IMO might get away with Reaves being a star, but I see nothing with Ayton, and LeBron is old. Their defense with Ayton, Bron, and Luka will be pathetic.

Not even a big 3, man.

sp6r=underrated wrote:

UglyBugBall wrote:

God Squad wrote:If this is considered a "Big 4" then the Lakers are cooked. LeBron is old now, and Ayton has always been a bum.

Spoiler:

Plus, the Celtics had KG, Ray, Paul, and Rondo.

Yeah, I forgot about the Celtics. They definitely count... Anyone else come to mind?

There has been alot based on your standards. I'm using Reeves as the cutoff guy.

I'm just doing this off memory of big 4s that meet your standards. And I'm sure I'm missing some:
Bird-McHale-Parish-Walton
Magic-Kareem-Worthy-Scott
Jordan-Pippen-Rodman-Kukoc
Duncan-Manu-Parker-Barry
Kawhi-Duncan-Manu-Parker
Curry-Durant-Green-Thompson
Nash-Marion-A'mare-Johnson
Dirk-Nash-Finley-NVE
Shaq-Penny-Grant-Anderson

If you're right that this is a serious Big 4 the Lakers should be 55+,5+ SRS next year. And even then this is far from the first big 4. I'm missing a lot of pairings that probably qualify.

So I disagree with most of those, except for KD Warriors which I think is debatable, and possibly the Bird team. Celtics 4 is clearly a tier above these teams, especially at the 3rd/4th player.

Bird - McHale - Parish - Walton
Walton was a bench player at this point, nowhere near star impact. It was still the Bird-McHale-Parish core, but I can see an argument for this being at the level of the Lakers on paper I suppose.

Magic - Kareem - Worthy - Scott
By the time Scott mattered, Kareem was aging out. Scott was a role player, not a star.

Jordan - Pippen - Rodman - Kukoc
Rodman wasn’t an offensive threat, Kukoc wasn’t on their level. This was a Big 2 plus elite role players.

Duncan - Manu - Parker - Barry
Barry was a role player, not a star. This was a Big 3 era team.

Kawhi - Duncan - Manu - Parker
Duncan, Manu, Parker were aging and clearly past their primes when Kawhi rose. It wasn’t 4 prime stars at once. I mean yeah, Lebron is old, but he's still playing like a star.

Curry - Durant - Green - Thompson
Draymond isn’t a scoring threat. Incredible player, but not a “star” scorer like the others. This was more a Big 3 with elite glue IMO. But if you wanna say big 4 anyway, fine, it's the best team ever so I can't argue that hard against it.

Nash - Marion - Amar’e - Johnson
Don't really know enough about these guys to comment.

Dirk - Nash - Finley - NVE
Don't really know enough about these guys to comment.

Shaq - Penny - Grant - Anderson
Horace Grant and Nick Anderson weren’t stars, they were quality role players. This was a Shaq-Penny show.

If only the Nuggets got the chance to face LeBron in the playoffs once again and give him a proper sendoff to a retirement home.

UglyBugBall wrote:

JRoy wrote:Good grief.

Ayton is not a big anything except in his own mind. Reaves is a solid starter and that is all.

Might want to delete this.

Ayton going to look like semi-washed Shaq this year, book it. And that's a compliment, cuz you could split Shaq in 2 and have both of halves part of a big 2.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

UglyBugBall wrote:

sp6r=underrated wrote:

UglyBugBall wrote:
Yeah, I forgot about the Celtics. They definitely count... Anyone else come to mind?

There has been alot based on your standards. I'm using Reeves as the cutoff guy.

I'm just doing this off memory of big 4s that meet your standards. And I'm sure I'm missing some:
Bird-McHale-Parish-Walton
Magic-Kareem-Worthy-Scott
Jordan-Pippen-Rodman-Kukoc
Duncan-Manu-Parker-Barry
Kawhi-Duncan-Manu-Parker
Curry-Durant-Green-Thompson
Nash-Marion-A'mare-Johnson
Dirk-Nash-Finley-NVE
Shaq-Penny-Grant-Anderson

If you're right that this is a serious Big 4 the Lakers should be 55+,5+ SRS next year. And even then this is far from the first big 4. I'm missing a lot of pairings that probably qualify.

So I disagree with most of those, except for KD Warriors which I think is debatable, and possibly the Bird team. Celtics 4 is clearly a tier above these teams, especially at the 3rd/4th player.

Bird - McHale - Parish - Walton
Walton was a bench player at this point, nowhere near star impact. It was still the Bird-McHale-Parish core, but I can see an argument for this being at the level of the Lakers on paper I suppose.

Magic - Kareem - Worthy - Scott
By the time Scott mattered, Kareem was aging out. Scott was a role player, not a star.

Jordan - Pippen - Rodman - Kukoc
Rodman wasn’t an offensive threat, Kukoc wasn’t on their level. This was a Big 2 plus elite role players.

Duncan - Manu - Parker - Barry
Barry was a role player, not a star. This was a Big 3 era team.

Kawhi - Duncan - Manu - Parker
Duncan, Manu, Parker were aging and clearly past their primes when Kawhi rose. It wasn’t 4 prime stars at once. I mean yeah, Lebron is old, but he's still playing like a star.

Curry - Durant - Green - Thompson
Draymond isn’t a scoring threat. Incredible player, but not a “star” scorer like the others. This was more a Big 3 with elite glue IMO. But if you wanna say big 4 anyway, fine, it's the best team ever so I can't argue that hard against it.

Nash - Marion - Amar’e - Johnson
Don't really know enough about these guys to comment.

Dirk - Nash - Finley - NVE
Don't really know enough about these guys to comment.

Shaq - Penny - Grant - Anderson
Horace Grant and Nick Anderson weren’t stars, they were quality role players. This was a Shaq-Penny show.

Look if you're right that the Lakers Big 4 isn't just on par with these 4 but clearly superior they should win 65+ games. And if they don't you need to acknowledge you're wrong.

As an aside you'll understand basketball better when you think being an elite scorer is a prerequisite for being a star. Draymond Green is perhaps the best defensive player of his generation. That's more valuable than Thompson's scoring.