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KG is a guy who was stuck with a lousy TWolves organization that could never put a respectable contender around him. He was so damn good that he carried those teams as well as anybody could, such as carrying them to the WCF and taking 2 games off the 03-04 Lakers.

KG is a top 10 all time talent. No question about it. A number of intelligent basketball fans actually have him in the top 10. Compare him to somebody like Kobe. Kobe dictated where he went from the start. He told Calipari that he would never play for the Nets if they drafted him. He made it very clear that there were a number of teams he wouldn't play for. This resulted in him getting drafted by the Hornets and traded to the Lakers.

Most people don't knock his legacy for refusing to play for a number of teams at first. He forced his way to a GOAT franchise and was lucky enough to play with the GOAT coach and some of the most talented teams in history. He won 5 championships that way.

Nearly all casual fans have Kobe above KG. You'll at some very intelligent fans who do in depth analysis putting KG above Kobe. Overall, the real difference between their rankings is because the organizations they played for. If KG went to the Lakers, he'd have more chips and would undoubtedly be ranked higher. And vice versa, Kobe would probably have between 0 and 2 and would be ranked lower.

People love to bash players for not being "loyal". But nobody faulta Kobe for the stunt he.pulled when entering the league. Nobody gives KG extra credit for being loyal to a bad organization. In the long run it hurt KGs legacy overall. Is he the ultimate example of why players should say f*** loyalty and chase rings?

Is KG even a top 10 talent for his generation?

I would say so for sure. People don't seem to remember his prime and sort of write him off due to not having the same playoff success as his peers prior to joining Boston. KG was already past his prime when he went to Boston though.

You leave out the part where he signed the richest contract extension in nba history, basically triggered the 99 lock out and salary cap.

His contract plus the new salary cap rules, plus the wolves illegally getting caught for the joe smith signing. They just could t build a team around him

I agree the Garnett on Wolves experience was probably a motivation for the wave of player movement afterwards.

I don't dislike the Wolves but I loved KG and it annoys me a lot that the FO on the Wolves just weren't ready for the big time.

KG should have been a lock in everyones top 10 all time

He wasn't a first option for a true title contender, BUT I suppose on a team like the 04 Pistons, he could've been viewed as a number one option on a title team.

Basically, he'd need perfect circumstances to be THE guy on a title team.

Otherwise, he is what he is, a 2nd/3rd option on a title team.

And he damn sure isn't above Kobe LOL. Kobe was a true #1 that won back to back with his second option being 0-16 in the playoffs without him before he went to Chicago.

Puhleeze. He wasnt individually great enough no matter how good or bad his teammates were.

Some higher ranked players have been stuck on some lukewarm to lousy rosters and either managed to get them to overachieve in the regular season or once the playoffs came around even though their team lost they individually kicked a**.

Or in some extremely rare cases both en route to a title.

And other than possibly 03 vs the Lakers I cant say either for KG in the playoffs.

Even when he joined a stacked Boston they barely scraped that title with imho the most underwhelming playoff performance of any title winning team I've ever seen.

16-10 overall, barely scraped past one of the worst 8th seeded teams in NBA playoff history and then barely scraped past LBJ and a cast of scrubs.

Probably the most overrated HOF player based on reputation vs actually what they did.

Oh and Kobe was like Jordan in this manner...

They both scored 10+ more points a game than their 2nd options during title runs.

I'm sure it has been done by other players as well, but Kobe nor Jordan needed another 20+ point scorer to win titles.

KG could never. His offensive repertoire and killer instinct simply wasn't good enough.

Trivia night -- when Boston's Large Trio got together KG was in his 13th season (31 yo), Ray in his 12th season (32 yo), and Pierce his 10th (30 years old). Better late than never.

ScrantonBulls wrote:KG is a guy who was stuck with a lousy TWolves organization that could never put a respectable contender around him. He was so damn good that he carried those teams as well as anybody could, such as carrying them to the WCF and taking 2 games off the 03-04 Lakers.

KG is a top 10 all time talent. No question about it. A number of intelligent basketball fans actually have him in the top 10. Compare him to somebody like Kobe. Kobe dictated where he went from the start. He told Calipari that he would never play for the Nets if they drafted him. He made it very clear that there were a number of teams he wouldn't play for. This resulted in him getting drafted by the Hornets and traded to the Lakers.

Most people don't knock his legacy for refusing to play for a number of teams at first. He forced his way to a GOAT franchise and was lucky enough to play with the GOAT coach and some of the most talented teams in history. He won 5 championships that way.

Nearly all casual fans have Kobe above KG. You'll at some very intelligent fans who do in depth analysis putting KG above Kobe. Overall, the real difference between their rankings is because the organizations they played for. If KG went to the Lakers, he'd have more chips and would undoubtedly be ranked higher. And vice versa, Kobe would probably have between 0 and 2 and would be ranked lower.

People love to bash players for not being "loyal". But nobody faulta Kobe for the stunt he.pulled when entering the league. Nobody gives KG extra credit for being loyal to a bad organization. In the long run it hurt KGs legacy overall. Is he the ultimate example of why players should say f*** loyalty and chase rings?

This is true about Kobe cherry picking his way to LA as a rookie, and imho this gets swept under the carpet.

But that being said....KG top 10 all time talent? What criteria does one even use to give such a label? I personally just did NOT see this with KG at all. He was like a taller rich mans Scottie Pippen.

I don't care how versatile he was or how his metrics that people on RealGM boast about are rated so highly when he couldn't take over games offensively in the playoffs and that automatically disqualifies him from any top 10 talent lists.

And on defence, it wasn't game changing enough compared to the likes of Russell or Olajuwon to make me think highly of him there.

I mean, KG was pretty well rewarded for his loyalty. There's a reason his nickname was the "Big ticket".

Bolting for greener pastures doesn't always work out either. Damian Lillard arguably hurt his legacy with the move the a contender (although, financially, it's worked out wonderfully for him).

zimpy27 wrote:I agree the Garnett on Wolves experience was probably a motivation for the wave of player movement afterwards.

I don't dislike the Wolves but I loved KG and it annoys me a lot that the FO on the Wolves just weren't ready for the big time.

KG should have been a lock in everyones top 10 all time

Without question. Just look at his RAPM rankings. Ball dont lie. KG was a machine.

https://www.nbarapm.com/player/Kevin_Garnett

Garnett a top 10 talent lmao! As in top 10 all time? Based on what? And Dirk stuck with the Mavs his entire career and that didnt hurt his “legacy” but not that Dirk cared about “legacy” lol

zimpy27 wrote:I agree the Garnett on Wolves experience was probably a motivation for the wave of player movement afterwards.

I don't dislike the Wolves but I loved KG and it annoys me a lot that the FO on the Wolves just weren't ready for the big time.

KG should have been a lock in everyones top 10 all time

How is Garnett a lock for top 10? Lol based on what?

MavsDirk41 wrote:Garnett a top 10 talent lmao! As in top 10 all time? Based on what? And Dirk stuck with the Mavs his entire career and that didnt hurt his “legacy” but not that Dirk cared about “legacy” lol

https://www.nbarapm.com/player/Kevin_Garnett
Check out the advanced stats, son. Ball don't lie. The highly regarded basketball minds agree with KG being top 10.

Dirk played on stacked teams his entire career lmao. Were you watching the game then? Comparing KG's situations to Dirk's is laughable.

Handlez wrote:Oh and Kobe was like Jordan in this manner...

They both scored 10+ more points a game than their 2nd options during title runs.

I'm sure it has been done by other players as well, but Kobe nor Jordan needed another 20+ point scorer to win titles.

KG could never. His offensive repertoire and killer instinct simply wasn't good enough.

I don't really want to make this a Kobe vs KG thing but the last sentence is so true about KG.

I remember 40 year old Karl Malone just absolutely LOCKING MVP KG up in game 6 on the road. It was ugly to watch, he was forced out on the perimeter taking that ugly low % 15-18 foot turnaround and missing aplenty or turning it over.

And it's funny how I see how many claim Cassell's injury cost him a title...lol. Even with Cassell healthy with the way Detroit dominated defensively in the Finals with the Wallace frontcourt duo there's no way Minny was winning anything that year with KG as THE man.

As the 03-04 MVP at the peak of his powers in the preceding 2 series vs Denver and Sacramento he was shooting a combined 44% FG. Hardly setting the playoffs alight.

You all like its some kind of birthright for all-stars to team up with other all-stars. Why can' the little guy get on the scripted legacy runs? A lot of players would jump into the HOF discussion if they could simply pull a Lebron every few years and team up with the top superstars in the league. All this excuse mongering is just purely basketball elitism which deep down is trying to justify mercing the league through collusion.

FuShengTHEGreat wrote:

Handlez wrote:Oh and Kobe was like Jordan in this manner...

They both scored 10+ more points a game than their 2nd options during title runs.

I'm sure it has been done by other players as well, but Kobe nor Jordan needed another 20+ point scorer to win titles.

KG could never. His offensive repertoire and killer instinct simply wasn't good enough.

I don't really want to make this a Kobe vs KG thing but the last sentence is so true about KG.

I remember 40 year old Karl Malone just absolutely LOCKING MVP KG up in game 6 on the road. It was ugly to watch, he was forced out on the perimeter taking that ugly low % 15-18 foot turnaround and missing aplenty or turning it over.

And it's funny how I see how many claim Cassell's injury cost him a title...lol. Even with Cassell healthy with the way Detroit dominated defensively in the Finals with the Wallace frontcourt duo there's no way Minny was winning anything that year with KG as THE man.

As the 03-04 MVP at the peak of his powers in the preceding 2 series vs Denver and Sacramento he was shooting a combined 44% FG. Hardly setting the playoffs alight.

KG was tied for 2nd in VORP those playoffs (1.7 in 18 games vs 1.8 for Kobe in 22 games). KG was 3rd in BPM behind Dirk (only a 5 game sample size) and Manu (10 game sample size, vs KG with 18 games). He was the best player in the playoffs that season. He was also playing with a garbage ass squad. Dude was a machine.

ScrantonBulls wrote:

FuShengTHEGreat wrote:

Handlez wrote:Oh and Kobe was like Jordan in this manner...

They both scored 10+ more points a game than their 2nd options during title runs.

I'm sure it has been done by other players as well, but Kobe nor Jordan needed another 20+ point scorer to win titles.

KG could never. His offensive repertoire and killer instinct simply wasn't good enough.

I don't really want to make this a Kobe vs KG thing but the last sentence is so true about KG.

I remember 40 year old Karl Malone just absolutely LOCKING MVP KG up in game 6 on the road. It was ugly to watch, he was forced out on the perimeter taking that ugly low % 15-18 foot turnaround and missing aplenty or turning it over.

And it's funny how I see how many claim Cassell's injury cost him a title...lol. Even with Cassell healthy with the way Detroit dominated defensively in the Finals with the Wallace frontcourt duo there's no way Minny was winning anything that year with KG as THE man.

As the 03-04 MVP at the peak of his powers in the preceding 2 series vs Denver and Sacramento he was shooting a combined 44% FG. Hardly setting the playoffs alight.

KG was tied for 2nd in VORP those playoffs (1.7 in 18 games vs 1.8 for Kobe in 22 games). KG was 3rd in BPM behind Dirk (only a 5 game sample size) and Manu (10 game sample size, vs KG with 18 games). He was the best player in the playoffs that season. He was also playing with a garbage ass squad. Dude was a machine.

I have to say, not sure anyone had more of a bum roster to compete for a championship then KG, I love Cassell but he can't be your 2nd option.

KG is hurt more by not being a great volume scorer. He was elite at everything else but most of the guys that people consider in those top all time spots could score in bunches, especially in crucial moments.

Also, he had plenty of talent in Boston. Him being inactive in the 2009 playoffs and not beating LA in 2010 probably impacts his legacy more. Maybe it's not fair but he needed more than one title with that group to be considered higher on all time lists.