RealGM

Agree or disagree? They do feel like mercenary chips: https://sports.yahoo.com/article/top-75-nba-player-throws-175054096.html

They are not worth nothing, they are just worth less.

People who don't live in glass houses should throw stones.

Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins a championship. He goes to Miami he is a ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

Lots of whining from Stockton. Not worth listening to at all.

Rainwater wrote:Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

I think there’s a difference between going to a better situation vs constructing super teams with different franchises over and over (while partially being able to do so because your buddy is an agent which is a whole different conversation)

I don’t trust when John Stockton does his own research

Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

LakerLegend wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

I think there’s a difference between going to a better situation vs constructing super teams with different franchises over and over (while partially being able to do so because your buddy is an agent which is a whole different conversation)

What if he pouted and threatened to leave unless they brought him more help. Would that have been ok?

LakerLegend wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

I think there’s a difference between going to a better situation vs constructing super teams with different franchises over and over (while partially being able to do so because your buddy is an agent which is a whole different conversation)

Man, if the GM is not doing their job why not build your own team. In the NBA, your legacy is stupidly determined by titles. If I can build my legacy I will do it; if not, people will call me a loser otherwise.

They definitely have more value than the titles Stockton won.

Of that I can be absolutely confident.

He is just jealous

LakerLegend wrote:Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

That Cleveland team was bad. Before the recent Piston team, they were the worse team record wise in NBA history when Lebron left, lol. The fact LBJ brought that team to the finals tells you how good Lebron was rather than how good that team was. And it kinda tells you how much better Lebron is compared to the players you listed.

Rainwater wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

That Cleveland team was bad. Before the recent Piston team, they were the worse team record wise in NBA history Lebron left, lol. The fact LBJ brought that team to the finals tells you how good Lebron was rather than how good that team was. And it kinda tells you how much better Lebron is compared to the players you listed.

Those Cleveland teams had a ton more talent than the ones those guys were carrying.

If Lebron did what KD did with the Warriors then I would agree....but Lebron never joined a team that was already capable of winning a championship before AND after him joining/leaving.

Rainwater wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

I think there’s a difference between going to a better situation vs constructing super teams with different franchises over and over (while partially being able to do so because your buddy is an agent which is a whole different conversation)

Man, if the GM is not doing their job why not build your own team. In the NBA, your legacy is stupidly determined by titles. If I can build my legacy I will do it; if not, people will call me a loser otherwise.

There’s levels to it. Trying to stack the deck repeatedly is not the sign of true competitors

LakerLegend wrote:Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

Why is this supposed to be an argument against Lebron's decision? If there was a Celtics or even Magic team like we had in the mid to late 2000s in the early 2000s, Jason Kidd and Iverson would not even have a finals appearance as the lead guy, so why is this arguing against Lebron's decision, you're arguing for the decision by saying this.

None of those guys had a true contending roster in those seasons, and most years were 1st round, at best 2nd round exits. AI got to the finals in a weak East where his team was no match, LeBron's 2007 Cavs were an equally poor roster relative to competition in the East as that Philly team.

Carter asked for trade, TMac asked for a trade. Kobe after Shaq threatened to leave if the roster didn't improve and that was what, like 3 seasons? Lebron gave the Cavs 7 seasons.

So you're arguing that Lebron should have hung around on 1st/2nd round teams and then asked for a trade?

Post retirement Stockton has not done himself any favors with the dumb crap he says

og15 wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

Why is this supposed to be an argument against Lebron's decision? If there was a Celtics or Magic team like we had in the mid to late 2000s in the early 2000s, Jason Kidd and Iverson would not even have a finals appearance as the lead guy, so why is this arguing against Lebron's decision, you're arguing for the decision by saying this.

None of those guys had a true contending roster in those seasons, and most years were 1st round, at best 2nd round exits. AI got to the finals in a weak East where his team was no match, LeBron's 2007 Cavs were an equally poor roster relative to competition in the East as that Philly team.

Carter asked for trade, TMac asked for a trade. Kobe after Shaq threatened to leave if the roster didn't improve and that was what, like 3 seasons? Lebron gave the Cavs 7 seasons.

So you're arguing that Lebron should have hung around on 1st/2nd round teams and then asked for a trade?

No, I’m saying he went and repeatedly tried to form super teams in his prime with different franchises when the going got rough where he was. None of those guys did that to that degree. No one in history besides kd and harden.