RealGM

Oh hey again good pals. This is the thing where we rank the top 25 NBA players for 2025-26 hooray.

Basically vote for 1 of the guys in the poll, and you can also post a comment that nominates a player to be added for the next round of voting. Then a day or two later I'll pop in and make the next poll.

So like: "Vote Jokic, nominate Kuzma." Or whatever.

If you change your mind, the poll is set up so you can change your vote as often as you'd like until the poll closes and the next thread goes up. (The poll is limited to 10 options.)

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Results so far:

#1: Nikola Jokić, Denver Nuggets with 63% of the votes;
Added to next poll: Cade Cunningham, Detroit Pistons
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472330

#2: Shai Gilgeous Alexander, OKC Thunder with 54% of the votes;
Added to next poll: Anthony Davis, Dallas Mavericks
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472418

#3: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks with 50% of the vote
Added to next poll: Jalen Williams, OKC Thunder
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472506

#4: Luka Doncic, LA Lakers with 62% of votes;
Added to next poll: Evan Mobley, Cleveland Cavaliers
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472644

#5: Victor Wembanyama, San Antonio Spurs with 60% of the vote;
Added to next poll: Kevin Durant, Houston Rockets
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472702

#6: Anthony Edwards, Minnesota Timberwolves with 41% of votes;
Added to next poll: Paolo Banchero, Orlando Magic
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472754

#7: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors with 30% of the votes;
Added to next poll: Kawhi Leonard, LA Clippers
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2472918

#8: Anthony Davis, Dallas Mavericks with 46% of the vote;
Added to next poll: Jaylen Brown, Boston Celtics
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2473076

#9: Jalen Brunson, New York Knicks with 36% of votes;
Added to next poll: Devin Booker, Phoenix Suns
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=119556568#p119556568

#10: Donovan Mitchell, Cleveland Cavaliers with 29% of votes;
Added to next poll: Pascal Siakam, Indiana Pacers
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2473174

#11: Cade Cunningham, Detroit Pistons with 27% of votes;
Added to next poll: Chet Holmgren, OKC Thunder
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2473228

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Not yet added:
Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers
Karl-Anthony Towns, New York Knicks
Trae Young, Atlanta Hawks
Ja Morant, Memphis Grizzlies
James Harden, LA Clippers
Amen Thompson, Houston Rockets
Derrick White, Boston Celtics
Jimmy Butler, Golden State Warriors
Tyrese Maxey, Philadelphia 76ers
Scottie Barnes, Toronto Raptors
Zion Williamson, New Orleans Pelicans
Franz Wagner, Orlando Magic
De'Aaron Fox, San Antonio Spurs
Bam Adebayo, Miami Heat
Lamelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets
Jaren Jackson Jr, Memphis Grizzlies
Tyler Herro, Miami Heat
Lauri Markannen, Utah Jazz
Ivica Zubac, LA Clippers
Paul George, Philadelphia 76ers
Domantas Sabonis, Sacramento Kings
Jamal Murray, Denver Nuggets
Alperen Sengun, Houston Rockets
Kyrie Irving, Dallas Mavericks
Etc etc.

This is meant to be a projection of player rankings for this coming season. Guys like Tatum ( ), Hali and Dame are likely not playing, so I begrudgingly left them out.

Enjoy!

Vote: Mobley
Nom: Towns

I'll probably be voting Mobley then J.Dub until they're off the board. I expect some of the old guys will get voted in sooner though.

I think this board generated a pretty solid top 10. After this point things get a lot more chaotic as the different things we value clash. I'll represent the defensive + versatility camp, and Mobley/J.Dub are the kings of this category, while also contributing scoring at an all-star level.

I did not have Cade Cunningham this high wow. I get people being wow'd by his points, rebounds, assists, and the team success of the Pistons last year. I think he still has a lot to prove though. 26/6/9 is crazy for sure, but being a negative efficiency scorer, while turning the ball over at that rate... to that just: this guy uses a huge number of possessions, and doesn't generate very good results. He's one mini-level up away though. If people are voting based on him getting there this year, then I can agree with that.

Mobley here.
Williams, Brown, Banchero seem close.
Nominate KAT

Voted Kawhi

Nominate Embiid

cupcakesnake wrote:Vote: Mobley
Nom: Towns

I'll probably be voting Mobley then J.Dub until they're off the board. I expect some of the old guys will get voted in sooner though.

I think this board generated a pretty solid top 10. After this point things get a lot more chaotic as the different things we value clash. I'll represent the defensive + versatility camp, and Mobley/J.Dub are the kings of this category, while also contributing scoring at an all-star level.

I did not have Cade Cunningham this high wow. I get people being wow'd by his points, rebounds, assists, and the team success of the Pistons last year. I think he still has a lot to prove though. 26/6/9 is crazy for sure, but being a negative efficiency scorer, while turning the ball over at that rate... to that just: this guy uses a huge number of possessions, and doesn't generate very good results. He's one mini-level up away though. If people are voting based on him getting there this year, then I can agree with that.

High usage guys who are central to a team's success are almost always going to be (relatively) inefficient. Guys who tend to be more efficient tend to have less responsibility, are less of a focus of the opposing team, and are able to hide behind the high-usage guys. This is why you cannot extrapolate what role players do versus what star players do.

And if the star player is on a bad team, then they'll likely be even more inefficient as they don't have enough deterrents that opposing defenses have to worry about.

SA37 wrote:Voted Kawhi

Nominate Embiid

The two guys who would be top 5 if they play 70 healthy games.

SA37 wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:Vote: Mobley
Nom: Towns

I'll probably be voting Mobley then J.Dub until they're off the board. I expect some of the old guys will get voted in sooner though.

I think this board generated a pretty solid top 10. After this point things get a lot more chaotic as the different things we value clash. I'll represent the defensive + versatility camp, and Mobley/J.Dub are the kings of this category, while also contributing scoring at an all-star level.

I did not have Cade Cunningham this high wow. I get people being wow'd by his points, rebounds, assists, and the team success of the Pistons last year. I think he still has a lot to prove though. 26/6/9 is crazy for sure, but being a negative efficiency scorer, while turning the ball over at that rate... to that just: this guy uses a huge number of possessions, and doesn't generate very good results. He's one mini-level up away though. If people are voting based on him getting there this year, then I can agree with that.

High usage guys who are central to a team's success are almost always going to be (relatively) inefficient. Guys who tend to be more efficient tend to have less responsibility, are less of a focus of the opposing team, and are able to hide behind the high-usage guys. This is why you cannot extrapolate what role players do versus what star players do.

And if the star player is on a bad team, then they'll likely be even more inefficient as they don't have enough deterrents that opposing defenses have to worry about.

I'm comparing Cade directly to other guys in his role, and finding him wanting.

Even if you are comparing guys in different roles, you have to draw a line somewhere. If I'm the central guy on my team, and I go out there and miss every shot, generate 0 assists, and 10 turnovers... you'd easily conclude I have negative value compared to every role player in the league, haha. Obviously the line isn't there, with that hypothetical player who could never exist, but there is a line where we can attribute stats to role, and wonder which guys in smaller roles are contributing more. I've always felt the very best "# 2s" are better than the worst "#1s" most of the time. We have to have some way of comparing these guys, and I dont agree with a logic that is: all guys in #1 roles are top 30 NBA players.

Good NBA players, if they're lucky, will play with other elite talent. How you play next to elite talent matters. A lot of NBA guys with on-ball skills could put up big point and assist numbers if you gave them the reps. Only a select few can take on that role and generate very good offense.

Voted LeBron. He’s still healthy and a force to be reckoned with. I think his defense will be fine.

Nominate: KAT

SA37 wrote:
High usage guys who are central to a team's success are almost always going to be (relatively) inefficient.

This is just not true at all.

Shai, Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD are all efficiency monsters.

Lamelo, Cade, Paolo, Ja, Trae are not.

This is the difference between MVP candidates and guys who we tend to overrate due to boxscore. Some of these guys are young and will get there. Until they get there, I don't think they're doing their job well enough to be this high up in the conversation.

Vote: Durant
Nominate: Embiid

jowglenn wrote:Voted LeBron. He’s still healthy and a force to be reckoned with. I think his defense will be fine.

Nominate: KAT

All true, but he is a year older and wasn’t a top 20 guy last year….why do you expect him to make a jump this year?

cupcakesnake wrote:

Spoiler:

SA37 wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:Vote: Mobley
Nom: Towns

I'll probably be voting Mobley then J.Dub until they're off the board. I expect some of the old guys will get voted in sooner though.

I think this board generated a pretty solid top 10. After this point things get a lot more chaotic as the different things we value clash. I'll represent the defensive + versatility camp, and Mobley/J.Dub are the kings of this category, while also contributing scoring at an all-star level.

I did not have Cade Cunningham this high wow. I get people being wow'd by his points, rebounds, assists, and the team success of the Pistons last year. I think he still has a lot to prove though. 26/6/9 is crazy for sure, but being a negative efficiency scorer, while turning the ball over at that rate... to that just: this guy uses a huge number of possessions, and doesn't generate very good results. He's one mini-level up away though. If people are voting based on him getting there this year, then I can agree with that.

High usage guys who are central to a team's success are almost always going to be (relatively) inefficient. Guys who tend to be more efficient tend to have less responsibility, are less of a focus of the opposing team, and are able to hide behind the high-usage guys. This is why you cannot extrapolate what role players do versus what star players do.

And if the star player is on a bad team, then they'll likely be even more inefficient as they don't have enough deterrents that opposing defenses have to worry about.

I'm comparing Cade directly to other guys in his role, and finding him wanting.

Even if you are comparing guys in different roles, you have to draw a line somewhere. If I'm the central guy on my team, and I go out there and miss every shot, generate 0 assists, and 10 turnovers... you'd easily conclude I have negative value compared to every role player in the league, haha. Obviously the line isn't there, with that hypothetical player who could never exist, but there is a line where we can attribute stats to role, and wonder which guys in smaller roles are contributing more. I've always felt the very best "# 2s" are better than the worst "#1s" most of the time. We have to have some way of comparing these guys, and I dont agree with a logic that is: all guys in #1 roles are top 30 NBA players.

Good NBA players, if they're lucky, will play with other elite talent. How you play next to elite talent matters. A lot of NBA guys with on-ball skills could put up big point and assist numbers if you gave them the reps. Only a select few can take on that role and generate very good offense.

Impossible to know how Detroit plays with another comparable player. Is Detroit better with James Harden, Trae Young, or Donovan Mitchell in place of Cade? Maybe Detroit has to play another way and makes different acquisitions depending on the player they're building around. Lots of variables there. Overall, though, Detroit really didn't have great players. On paper the 2nd best guy is probably Tobias Harris.

100% you can't say all guys in #1 roles are top 30 NBA players, but not every good #2 could be the #1. There are maybe 5-10 true #1 option, franchise-level talents at any one time in the league. So, yeah, we're definitely on the same page with regards to this stuff.

brackdan70 wrote:

jowglenn wrote:Voted LeBron. He’s still healthy and a force to be reckoned with. I think his defense will be fine.

Nominate: KAT

All true, but he is a year older and wasn’t a top 20 guy last year….why do you expect him to make a jump this year?

LeBron was absolutely top-20 last year. He was 2nd team all-NBA.

cupcakesnake wrote:

SA37 wrote:
High usage guys who are central to a team's success are almost always going to be (relatively) inefficient.

This is just not true at all.

Shai, Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD are all efficiency monsters.

Lamelo, Cade, Paolo, Ja, Trae are not.

This is the difference between MVP candidates and guys who we tend to overrate due to boxscore. Some of these guys are young and will get there. Until they get there, I don't think they're doing their job well enough to be this high up in the conversation.

And how many MVP candidates are there? 5-10 at any time. There are way more of the second group than the 1st. Your 1st list is not only the best guys currently, but they're ATG or on the path to it (SGA).

SA37 wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:

SA37 wrote:
High usage guys who are central to a team's success are almost always going to be (relatively) inefficient.

This is just not true at all.

Shai, Giannis, Jokic, Steph, KD are all efficiency monsters.

Lamelo, Cade, Paolo, Ja, Trae are not.

This is the difference between MVP candidates and guys who we tend to overrate due to boxscore. Some of these guys are young and will get there. Until they get there, I don't think they're doing their job well enough to be this high up in the conversation.

And how many MVP candidates are there? 5-10 at any time. There are way more of the second group than the 1st. Your 1st list is not only the best guys currently, but they're ATG or on the path to it (SGA).

Agreed. What I'm saying though is that we overvalue the second group, because of how- on the surface- they resemble the top group. When we look at simple stats (points, rebounds, assists), these guys are similar. When someone tries to actually use those numbers to determine value, there's often a chasm. It's not just spreadsheet stuff though, because the guys with those good complicated stats (impact, efficiency, etc.) tend to be the same ones winning games, driving deep playoff runs, or helping make bad teams into average ones.

Once we see the points, a lot of fans want to group those guys near the top of the league. I'm not sure they matter as much as we typically say they do, when it comes to ranking projects and awards.

I see a tendency in fan ranking projects like this:
1. We rank the MVP-type guys and get them out of the way.
2. Once those 5-10 guys are off the board, we look mostly at the other guys who are #1 options on teams
3. We start considering other high-level players on proven good teams. Secondary scorers/playmakers or really good defenders, or people bring a mix of skills but aren't the highest usage guys on their teams. We'll accept some of these players as being better than the bad "#1 options", but there's usually more fan skepticism here.

I do this all as well, but I think we're wrong to focus on some of the guys in that second group. I feel fairly confident that, no matter what your team is, you probably want OG Anunoby before you want Demar Derozan, if you're interested in winning more games that season.

SA37 wrote:

brackdan70 wrote:

jowglenn wrote:Voted LeBron. He’s still healthy and a force to be reckoned with. I think his defense will be fine.

Nominate: KAT

All true, but he is a year older and wasn’t a top 20 guy last year….why do you expect him to make a jump this year?

LeBron was absolutely top-20 last year. He was 2nd team all-NBA.

Not top 20 in any impact metrics.
The media was living in the past by voting him 2nd team. He was still great but didn’t deserve that based on his performance. And since we are talking about this coming year, I don’t expect improvement at age 40.

Voted Kawhi

Nominate Embiid

Voting JW. Mobley has a very good case also, but I feel like JW's Finals experience will make him a lot more valuable when it really matters, and will also benefit him a lot compared to last year.

Nominate Franz Wagner. If you just go by advanced stats, he probably should have gone already.

iggymcfrack wrote:Voting JW. Mobley has a very good case also, but I feel like JW's Finals experience will make him a lot more valuable when it really matters, and will also benefit him a lot compared to last year.

Nominate Franz Wagner. If you just go by advanced stats, he probably should have gone already.

Franz was among the best in the league before getting injured last season. He deserves to be nominated soon.