Do you think Lebron will drop in all time rankings after he retires like what happened to Kobe?

[Rodwilliams]

When Kobe played he was considered the 2nd best player of all time. Years later after he retired some people started calling players that he was already considered better than better than him.

I think the same will happen to LeBron after he retires. He considered top 5 all time now but when he retires he’ll be lucky to crack top 10 all time. Haters will do the same to him thay they did to Kobe. They will say xyz players is better then Lebron even though Lebron was considered better then them when playing.


If you had said Larry bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem or Wilt was better then Kobe while he was playing most people would’ve laughed in your face. Real nba fans know what’s up. If you ask current nba players or even most sport analysts have Kobe as top 3 all time. It’s these teenagers that didn’t see Kobe play that’s pushing these narratives. Haters as well. I believe the same will happen to LeBron after he retires.

[KyRo23]

I don’t remember Kobe really being seen as a top 2 player of all time. Maybe by his fans, but it wasn’t as widely agreed like it is LeBron (being 1-3 all time)

[The4thHorseman]

I stopped after the first sentence cause it's just simply not true. He was hard pressed to be considered as best active player in the league let alone 2nd best all time.

[ReggiesKnicks]

LeBron is seen in the Top 2 by many groups and Top 3 by everyone I have seen who doesn't seem to have an agenda.

Kobe wasn't seen Top 2. He was seen as a player who could become Top 2 with Jordan, especially after 2002 when he had 3 titles and some impressive post-season runs by his age 23 season.

I think what really curtailed Kobe was by the time he turned 30, the 2009 season in particular, there was a player so clearly better than him (LeBron James) that it was hard to keep talking about Kobe as "He will end up #2 all-time".

For reference, here are the RealGM Top 100 project rankings during Kobe's prime:
2008 - 18th
2011 - 10th
2014 - 13th
2017 - 11th
2020 - 12th
2023 - 13th

This is only one source.

538 had Kobe at 9th, which was only players since 1977.

Bleacher report has Kobe at 11th.

Again, people wanted to project Kobe as a Top 5 all-time guy when he was in the infancy of his career, but by the time he was 30 it was clear he wasn't a Top 5 player of all-time.

Now, there is a small caveat here, Kobe could have climbed a spot or two had he not gotten injured. Was this guaranteed? No, but it was definitely possible. But, once you start playing the injury game, it is possible LeBron and AD win another championship in 2021 if they don't get injured.

[og15]

When Kobe played he was considered the 2nd best player of all time. Years later after he retired some people started calling players that he was already considered better than better than him.

I think the same will happen to LeBron after he retires. He considered top 5 all time now but when he retires he’ll be lucky to crack top 10 all time. Haters will do the same to him thay they did to Kobe. They will say xyz players is better then Lebron even though Lebron was considered better then them when playing.


If you had said Larry bird, Magic Johnson, Hakeem or Wilt was better then Kobe while he was playing most people would’ve laughed in your face. Real nba fans know what’s up. If you ask current nba players or even most sport analysts have Kobe as top 3 all time. It’s these teenagers that didn’t see Kobe play that’s pushing these narratives. Haters as well. I believe the same will happen to LeBron after he retires.

I have been in internet basketball discourse for some time, and while of course you can find a specific players fans who might rank them higher than most people do, I simply can't remember a time when people generally ranked Kobe as #2 all time. While Kobe was playing, Lebron was already being ranked over him, so the whole premise kinda dies when the first assumption isn't even correct.

[mojomarc]

I honestly think you'd have trouble finding anyone who considered Kobe even the second greatest Laker of all time. Magic and Kareem and possibly Shaq (Shaq was clearly the driving force for the dynasty of the early 2000, but that is at least somewhat debatable since Shaq left for Miami halfway through that run) would all be above him.

[Stan]

OP managed to be wrong on virtually every point he made in his post, no easy task.

Yeah bro, you would've been laughed at if you considered any of those guys better than Kobe, laughed at.

This is just wishful thinking from a Kobe stan who still hasn't accepted LeBron passed Kobe nearly a decade ago.

[art_tatum]

what kind of bait thread is that lol.

but actually lebrons legacy wont age as well as say some other players. not enough to drop him anywhere in the rankings imo he will still firmly be a top 3 player all time in the majority of peoples minds (either as 1 or 2 or 3). maybe in the far future he might be considered top 5 but not anytime soon.

but his legacy IMO is complicated. on one hand hes one of the greatest to every play, statistical dominance, longevity,, player empowerment which is a positive for me in general. on the other hand, the team hopping, team stacking to chase rings, the media blitz, the whining etc. plus guys like jokic are surpassing prime lebron in raw and advanced statistical performance which was a talking point in lebrons goat argument.

its not as clean as say someone like bird or duncan who was on 1 team their whole career they have a different aura and imo duncans legacy aged quite well.
or look at his contemporary in curry who despite the KD super team for 3 years, will have a legacy that will age better. he played all on the warriors, won 4 rings with 3 different makeups, unanimous mvp, gave up individual accolades for KD to join, changed the game to the modern era/kids in the courts all try to replicate his game, was a ratings pull at times bigger than lebron (since its hard to replicate games of like lebron or giannis without the physical gifts). curry ofc wont be in the top 3 or 5 (unless he does something crazy at 37) but his legacy will keep him in or around the top 10. i dont see it bumping down much. might even jump a spot or two after he retires.

[Rainwater]

Kobe was never considered 2. Most don’t even have him top 5. Top 15, top 20 is where he usually is.

[NatiboyB]

I never saw kobe as the number 2 and I recall Lebron surpassing him while kobe was still in his prime. LeBron is going to be solidified as number 2 with valid arguments for being the greatest.

[God Squad]

Kobe isn't in the same Tier as Bron

Stop.

[TheGeneral99]

LOL!

Kobe was never considered the 2nd greatest of all-time, what are you talking about?

When Shaq left, the Lakers struggled and missed the playoffs in 2005. Kobe had a very inefficient season. In 2006, Kobe averaged 35ppg but the Lakers got bounced in the 1st round and many viewed him as a selfish iso player who can't win on his own. The trade for Gasol helped him and he was able to rehab his career in the all-time rankings.

Even after winning two chips in 2009 and 2010, many now viewed him as a top 10-15 player...he was never ever considered a top 5 player of all-time under almost every all-time ranking.

Lebron on the other hand has been almost unanimously considered the 2nd best player of all-time since the Cavaliers won a chip in 2016.

[The Master]

Once Kobe retired, he started to lose steam in alltime discussions because his resume just isn’t strong enough to keep him as highly regarded as he once was. A 2x FMVP and 1x RS MVP is obviously an immense achievement, but it still puts him more on the tier of players like Hakeem Olajuwon or Kevin Durant, at least resume-wise.

LeBron on the other hand is tied for second all-time in the combined number of FMVPs and RS MVPs. If there’s any revisionism about LeBron, I guess it will be in his favor, simply because his critics will eventually have to admit that he had a top-3 prime combined with top-2 longevity, at least in post-Russell era.

Even ignoring the basic premise of the OP, there's no equivalence here on any level. The main problem with Kobe discussions has always been that for his fans top10-top15 range alltime isn't enough. LeBron fans, even if most of them believe he's the GOAT, won't rebel that he's 'only' a top3 player ever according to the people.

[Blame Rasho]

lol… just lol…

[TheGeneral99]

Once Kobe retired, he started to lose steam in alltime discussions because his resume just isn’t strong enough to keep him as highly regarded as he once was. A 2x FMVP and 1x RS MVP is obviously an immense achievement, but it still puts him more on the tier of players like Hakeem Olajuwon or Kevin Durant, at least resume-wise.

LeBron on the other hand is tied for second all-time in the combined number of FMVPs and RS MVPs. If there’s any revisionism about LeBron, I guess it will be in his favor, simply because his critics will eventually have to admit that he had a top-3 prime combined with top-2 longevity, at least in post-Russell era.

Even ignoring the basic premise of the OP, there's no equivalence here on any level. The main problem with Kobe discussions has always been that for his fans top10-top15 range alltime isn't enough. LeBron fans, even if most of them believe he's the GOAT, won't rebel that he's 'only' a top3 player ever according to the people.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

Slam 500 greatest of all-time published in 2011 had Kobe ranked 10.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/14667140?utm_source=chatgpt.com

ESPN did a top 40 of all-time list in 2016 and had Kobe at 11. Lebron was already #3.

https://www.metro.us/top-10-nba-players-of-all-time-rankings-metros-best-of-basketball-list/

This list was from 2016 and didn't have Kobe in the top 10 and had Lebron already ahead of him.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cbs-sports-50-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

CBS did an all-time list in 2017 and had Kobe at 10.

https://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/08/michael-jordan-lebron-james-stephen-curry-nba-greatest?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Sports Illustrated did a list in 2016 and had Kobe at 12.


*So it's verified that around the time Kobe retired, most all-time lists had him ranked around 10-12, which is the same place they have him now. It never changed. The only difference is that many now argue Steph is ahead of Kobe on the all-time lists, which I agree with.

So yes you are correct he's on par with Hakeem and KD...which is great.

[TheGeneral99]

OP managed to be wrong on virtually every point he made in his post, no easy task.

Yeah bro, you would've been laughed at if you considered any of those guys better than Kobe, laughed at.

This is just wishful thinking from a Kobe stan who still hasn't accepted LeBron passed Kobe nearly a decade ago.

Many had Lebron passing Kobe already in 2013 when he got his 2nd championship and 4th MVP.

By 2016 it wasn't even close and Lebron had already entered the top 3 list.

[Sixers in 4]

He won't have a fan base or legacy that will be supporting him in 20 or 30 years because even the Cleveland fan base doesn't feel a deep emotional connection to him and because he moved around so much.

Since he won't have anyone to preserve his legacy, unlike Bull or Laker fans. I think 10 to 20 years from now most people will probably shrug their shoulders when they mention his name. He still will be known as a great player, but the falloff will be even greater than Kobe's because Kobe was beloved by fans and had a huge fanbase behind him. LeBron is mostly beloved by the media, and once he's out of the league and yesterday's news, they move on to the next thing; it's going to be a major dropoff.

[Optms]

Kobe was around that 8-12 range in 2010. He is still in that range today. He hasn't dropped, because the consensus never had him top 2.

[The Master]

He won't have a fan base or legacy that will be supporting him in 20 or 30 years because even the Cleveland fan base doesn't feel a deep emotional connection to him and because he moved around so much.

LeBron will have his jersey retired by three organizations, on its own this is massive from perspective of 'securing legacy' in long-term perspective. It's like saying that Shaq doesn't have a fan base or legacy with very similar career trajectory while being a tier worse player - of course he does.

Actually, going to the Lakers was the best thing LeBron could've done with managing his haters as Lakers fanbase was pretty vocal about him in the past and now majority of their fans are very positive about LBJ.

[Bornstellar]

OP fumbled literally within the first sentence