RealGM

Rank these four great offensive PG's 1-3 for peak play.

Deron Williams > Damian Lillard > Tyrese Haliburton > Trae Young

swyftdahoe wrote:Deron Williams > Damian Lillard > Tyrese Haliburton > Trae Young

Lololololol

No

Hard to place D-Will. He peaked at age 23 and was a crazy well-rounded pick & roll operator who could shoot, pressure the rim, and make super high-level passing reads. He was a truly garbage defender in ways people didn't realize at the time.

On this list though... garbage defense doesn't stand out.

My first guess at this list is:

Dame Lillard
Tyrese Haliburton
Deron Williams
Trae Young

But these guys are all pretty close.

Hali hasn't even hit his peak yet...

Pattycakes wrote:

swyftdahoe wrote:Deron Williams > Damian Lillard > Tyrese Haliburton > Trae Young

Lololololol

No

it looks funny at first i agree. but peak deron williams was nasty. People were comparing him and cp3 all the time. Not sure if i would rank him above Dame, but its not that big of a gap as it may seem. Dame is a better scorer, but dwill could really pass and get those dimes. they both had bad teams tbh. always hard for me to compare when the teams were just **** for most part of their careers.

I'm willing to flip Dame/Hali, but this feels right.

Dame
Hali
Deron
Young

Deron > Hali > Lillard >>> Trae

No offense to Trae, but he has never sniffed Top 10 player

cupcakesnake wrote:Hard to place D-Will. He peaked at age 23 and was a crazy well-rounded pick & roll operator who could shoot, pressure the rim, and make super high-level passing reads. He was a truly garbage defender in ways people didn't realize at the time.

On this list though... garbage defense doesn't stand out.

My first guess at this list is:

Dame Lillard
Tyrese Haliburton
Deron Williams
Trae Young

But these guys are all pretty close.

This is the right list for now. Trae should pass Williams if he lasts. I hope Haliburton passes Dame, but that's a tall task.

NoStatsGuy wrote:

Pattycakes wrote:

swyftdahoe wrote:Deron Williams > Damian Lillard > Tyrese Haliburton > Trae Young

Lololololol

No

it looks funny at first i agree. but peak deron williams was nasty. People were comparing him and cp3 all the time. Not sure if i would rank him above Dame, but its not that big of a gap as it may seem. Dame is a better scorer, but dwill could really pass and get those dimes. they both had bad teams tbh. always hard for me to compare when the teams were just **** for most part of their careers.

And it made not sense then. It's still one of the weirdest and most incomprehensible things the media ever did. It's on the level of calling Harold Miner baby jordan.

He was a very good guard who looked better than he was under Jerry Sloans pick and roll offense. Who also despite his size was a terrible defender.

ReggiesKnicks wrote:Deron > Hali > Lillard >>> Trae

No offense to Trae, but he has never sniffed Top 10 player

I think a case can be made for the first three in any order depending on a person's individual preference, but what's universally true is that there's a significant drop off to Trae.

SkyHook wrote:

ReggiesKnicks wrote:Deron > Hali > Lillard >>> Trae

No offense to Trae, but he has never sniffed Top 10 player

I think a case can be made for the first three in any order depending on a person's individual preference, but what's universally true is that there's a significant drop off to Trae.

Indeed. Trae is a good basketball player but so far hasn't reached the level of the other 3.

Trae is definitely last I think, other 3 is hard, Maybe Lillard, Deron, Hali?

UcanUwill wrote:Trae is definitely last I think, other 3 is hard, Maybe Lillard, Deron, Hali?

Deron's career in total is just a lot longer than Hali so that's fair. The counter is Hali in his first two playoffs likely has two playoff runs as good or better than Deron's best (2008 I would assume is everyone's pick).

Lillard is definitely first with 1 All-NBA 1st team, 4 All-NBA 2nd team awards, and 1 4th-place vote in the MVP race. None of the other guys come close to that resume. He was the undisputed superstar who carried his Portland team to 8 straight playoff berths in the brutal West. We was not part of a 1A/1B combo like Williams/Boozer or Haliburton/Siakam (excluding his first playoff run with Aldridge). McCollum never made an All-Star game and none of Lillard's other teammates were ever even above-average starters.

Trae Young is definitely last because he is a massive defensive liability and his team doesn't win. (Has exceeded a .500 record just 2 times in his career in a laughable Eastern Conference.)

Deron versus Haliburton is a toss-up. I think Haliburton's best moments were a bit more impressive and dynamic than Deron, but Deron had a very long and consistent career whereas Haliburton has only been around for 5 seasons.

I do not think we have seen peak Haliburton yet

nate33 wrote:Lillard is definitely first with one All-NBA 1st team and four All-NBA 2nd team awards, and one 4th place vote in the MVP race. None of the other guys come close to that resume.

Trae Young is definitely last because he is a massive defensive liability and his team doesn't win. (Has exceeded a .500 record just 2 times in his career.)

Deron versus Haliburton is a toss-up. I think Haliburton's best moments were a bit more impressive and dynamic than Deron, but Deron had a very long and consistent career whereas Haliburton has only been around for 5 seasons.

Deron's D-xRAPM

2006 - 9th percentile
2007 - 37th
2008 - 39th
2009 - 32nd
2010 - 57th
2011 - 30th
2012 - 28th
2013 - 28th
2014 - 69th (minutes were starting to drop)
2015 - 76th
2016 - 76th
2017 - 63th

Now Trae is worse defensively, but during the years that Williams was getting those allstar bids and getting all that credit as a key offensive player. His defense was pretty darn terrible. Again Trae is worse but Willams I think gets off because he LOOKED like he should be a very good defender when in reality he was a serious defensive liability. And more frustrating is that it looks like as he was trying to hang onto an NBA career, he actually showed he had the ability to play passable defense so it was likely fully just a lack of effort.

So the PG that has actually led the league in assists several times and have taken over playoff series’s is last

I’ll say Trae, dame, Hali and Williams all time and dame and Hali can change spots currently

And Williams prolly had a higher peak than Dame, but dame had the highlights

Lillard>Deron>Haliburton>Young

People think of Deron as the broken down Nets, He had a stretch of 2/3 seasons where he was a top 15 player in the league.

Then he went to the nets, Got bone spurs in his ankles and would have a different coach/team mates every season and just fell off

brutalitops wrote:People think of Deron as the broken down Nets, He had a stretch of 2/3 seasons where he was a top 15 player in the league.

This may be true, but Haliburton has also had 2 seasons as a top 15-ish player (as evidenced by his two All-NBA 3rd team selections), and in the 2023-24 season through early January, he was on his way to getting legit MVP votes until he got injured.

I don't have a problem with someone placing Deron above Haliburton due to his long and consistent career, but Haliburton's peak is already pretty comparable and maybe a hair above, despite him being only 25.