Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time?

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Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#1 » by FrodoBaggins » Fri Oct 10, 2025 11:53 am

So, I've recently been watching a lot of 2006-2009 Kobe highlights, and I was particularly impressed by:

a) his scoring diversity
b) his post-up game

He scored in a variety of ways on and off the ball. His Synergy play type statistics were incredibly balanced, in both volume & efficiency. Here's what his MVP season looked like:


Kobe Bryant 2007-08:

Transition - 3.5 poss - 1.25ppp
P&R BH - 3.9 poss - 0.92ppp
Spot up - 3.2 poss - 1.07ppp
Post ups - 2.6 poss - 1.03ppp
Isolation - 8.3 poss - 0.99ppp
Cutting - 1.05 poss - 1.5ppp
Off screens - 1.3 poss - 1.05ppp
Handoffs - 0.96 poss - 0.83ppp
Misc - 1.23 poss - 0.56ppp



2008 Synergy
Isolation - 91st percentile
Pick and roll BH - 92nd percentile
Transition - 82nd percentile
Spot up - 84th percentile
Post up - 96th percentile
Off screen - 91st percentile
Cuts - 94th percentile
Handoffs - 85th percentile
Putbacks - 82nd percentile

2009 Synergy:
Isolation - 90th percentile
Post up - 95th percentile
P and R BH - 88th percentile
Transition - 76th percentile
Spot up - 86th percentile
Misc - 96th percentile
Cut - 91st percentile
Handoffs - 85th percentile
Putbacks - 86th percentile


Those numbers are superb considering the era and spacing Bryant was operating in. I think he may have scored more and at greater efficiency than LeBron in the halfcourt, but I can't be sure.


For players with 1000+ plays (synergy on a bad phone is annoying), in terms of halfcourt ppp

In 2008 he was 14th out of 58 guys

In 2009 he was 7th out of 63 guys

Worth noting some guys above him are play finishers like guys like amare and stuff. His 08 mark is great, but his 09 mark is excellent. For reference, Dirk is 7th in 2008 and 9th in 2009. Above cp3/Wade/lebron as well both years (might be wrong about Wade in 08 but I’m not gonna relook it up lol)

His synergy profile makes him look like a transcendent level 1v1 scorer (seriously, those marks are insane)



Nov. 23, 2009 - New York Times

According to Synergy, the majority of Bryant’s offense over the last five years originated in isolation plays, ranging from 30 percent to 38 percent. Last season, his most other common areas of scoring were, in order, post-ups, pick-and-rolls and transition baskets.

But those numbers also show that Bryant has become a more efficient player as he has aged. According to Synergy, Bryant attempted 50 percent of his jump shots from 3-point range five seasons ago. That figure dipped to 32 percent last season, but yielded more points per possession (1.08 to 1.01).

Bryant also ranked among the best last season in spot-up jumpers (1.11 points per possession versus .90 five years ago) and in coming off of screens (1.14 in 2008-9, versus .81 in 2004-5 when the Lakers were 34-48).


Kobe's on-ball/off-ball, balanced approach reminds me most of Kawhi, KD, Booker, etc in recent years. Here's what 2016-17 looked like for Leonard:


Kawhi Leonard 2016-17:

Transition - 2.9 poss - 1.33ppp
P&R BH - 5.6 poss - 1.01ppp
Spot up - 4.3 poss - 1.24ppp
Post ups - 1.9 poss - 0.99ppp
Isolation - 2.9 poss - 0.94ppp
Cutting - 0.6 poss - 1.47ppp
Off screens - 1.7 poss - 0.91ppp
Handoffs - 1.4 poss - 1.05ppp
Misc - 0.8 poss - 0.98ppp


Ok, so the biggest difference is the isolation volume. It's hard to find a modern player who isolates as much as Kobe did, while also doing all the off-ball stuff. Shai, Harden, and Luka don't have the off-ball activity. I suppose it's got to be KD and, to a lesser extent, Kyrie? I'm not sure. Anyways, onto Kobe's post-up game.

Bryant really began to utilize his post-up game more in 2008-09, per the highlight reel + 3-16 feet FGA:


% of FGAs from 3-16 feet

2007-08: 21.6%
2008-09: 30.1%
2009-10: 35.3%
2010-11: 38.2%


He trained with Hakeem around this time (2009 off-season), but I think that was mainly just PR. Kobe always had great footwork and an effective post game. He just made it more of a priority as he aged/lost athleticism, which is natural.


Nov. 23, 2009 - New York Times

Probably to Battier’s chagrin, Bryant also visited the former Rockets center Hakeem Olajuwon over the summer for a tutorial on low-post play. They worked for five hours before Bryant left with another aspect to his game.

Sure enough, when the Lakers’ star power forward, Pau Gasol, missed the first 11 games of this season with an injury, 34 percent of Bryant’s offense originated in the post. That number was up from 14 percent a season ago and 8 percent in 2005-6, according to Synergy Sports Technology.

With a smile, Bryant conceded that those post moves were always at his disposal.


He could get deep position and score high-percentage baskets within the motion of The Triangle, but his mid-post play was the key.

He could work off the catch or dribble into the post; his footwork, pivots, fakes, and counters were sublime. He had the shooting range and touch to score effectively in the short mid-range area/non-RA paint/roughly 5-15 feet. Could finish with a myriad of shots: fadeaways, floaters, push shots, jump hooks; he could go left or right, and he's one of the only guys in NBA history who could effectively finish with his off-hand. Shout out Dolph Schayes.


His 2009 PPP in the half-court tops peak Wade, peak LBJ, and peak CP3 (via Synergy)

He's the best post-up guard in the league:

2009:
Garnett:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.993 PPP on 290 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.953 PPP on 254 poss
Pass outs: 1.484 PPP on 31 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0 PPP on 5 poss

Duncan:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.010 PPP on 675 poss
Single covered post-ups: 0.982 PPP on 563 poss
Pass outs: 1.250 PPP on 96 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.563 PPP on 16 poss

Dirk:
Post-up Derived offense: 0.998 PPP on 549 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.000 PPP on 454 poss
Pass outs: 1.173 PPP on 75 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.300 PPP on 20 poss


Kobe:
Post-up Derived offense: 1.035 PPP on 340 poss
Single covered post-ups: 1.039 PPP on 285 poss
Pass outs: 1.125 PPP on 48 poss
Doubled, no pass out: 0.286 PPP on 7 poss


Kobe was the only guard to lead the NBA in post-up PPP per Synergy:


[B]Top Post-up Scorers [minimum 200 attempts]

2005 - Amar'e Stoudemire (1.037 PPP)
2006 - Elton Brand (1.031 PPP)
2007 - Kevin Garnett (1.059 PPP)
2008 - Chris Bosh (1.052 PPP)
2009 - Pau Gasol (1.034 PPP)
2010 - Chris Bosh (1.093 PPP)
2011 - Dirk Nowitzki (1.149 PPP)
2012 - Carl Landry (1.045 PPP)
2013 - Kobe Bryant (1.050 PPP)
2014 - LeBron James (1.084 PPP)
2015 - Jonas Valanciunas (1.023 PPP)
2016 - Paul Millsap (1.04 PPP)
2017 - Nikola Jokic (1.12 PPP)
2018 - Karl-Anthony Towns (1.02 PPP)
2019 - Joel Embiid (1.05 PPP)
2020 - Joel Embiid (1.10 PPP)
2021 - Joel Embiid (1.08 PPP)
2022 - Nikola Jokic (1.17 PPP)
2023 - Nikola Jokic (1.22 PPP)
2024 - Joel Embiid (1.14 PPP)
2025 - DeMar DeRozan (1.11 PPP)


I mean, DeMar technically plays SF per Basketball Reference. Has for a number of years. He's a good post-up player, but he's not on Kobe's level, IMO. Bryant was a way better and more willing passer out of the post, and had a deeper bag of moves & counters.

I could see prime Kobe doing 1.1+ PPP on big-like volume (3-5 poss/g) in today's game with all the spacing. He has 4 years scoring above 1.0 PPP between 2006-2013. Another two at 0.99 and 0.98. This was when the league average was in the low 0.80s. Higher PPP than Duncan and Garnett most seasons.

This is an offensive element that makes him unique among guards. He's got the isolation game like Shai, the off-ball like Durant (or Booker/Kawhi?), and the post-up like a Siakam or Luka. Not many guards tick all those boxes.

Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? Jordan probably has him beat; Dipper 13's tracking had some very good volume and efficiency numbers for prime MJ.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#2 » by druggas » Fri Oct 10, 2025 12:33 pm

And he did it while trying to keep Shaq happy. Not easy.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#3 » by JinKaz69 » Fri Oct 10, 2025 1:56 pm

For me Jordan, Kobe and Penny are a lock for the 3 best post- up guards all-time.

I don't know about 4th and 5th. Maybe Magic and Payton (or Kawhi if we consider him as a guard) ?
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#4 » by mastermixer » Fri Oct 10, 2025 2:00 pm

I’m trying to think of other good post up guards.

Does Paul Piece count? He was kinda SG/SF.

Off the top of my head:
Vernon Maxwell
Mitch Richmond
Clyde Drexler
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#5 » by The Explorer » Fri Oct 10, 2025 2:10 pm

Bonzi Wells and Sam Cassell
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#6 » by NZB2323 » Fri Oct 10, 2025 2:16 pm

Oscar Robertson has to be up there.

Baron Davis and Tmac could both score in the post, although sometimes Tmac was a small forward. If we’re counting small forwards Paul Pierce could score in the high post.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#7 » by Anderson Hunt » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:01 pm

The best is Magic because of his elite passing, but Cassell and Nick Anderson need to be shouted out.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#8 » by Roger Murdock » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:03 pm

Jalen Rose was great

Saw someone mention Banzi Wells, great pull

Kobe and Jordan’s low past fades were great
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#9 » by jojo4341 » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:12 pm

In no particular order:

Magic
Kobe
MJ
GP
Mark Jackson
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#10 » by LockoutSeason » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:25 pm

Chauncey Billups.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#11 » by Bad Bart » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:29 pm

Andre Miller had an awesome post up game.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#12 » by Yallbecrazy » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:33 pm

Demar should be on the list. He developed into a playmaker his last couple years in Toronto too. You may not like him for his other deficiencies (3pt shooting and defense), but his post up play was elite and was the only reason he was a multi time all star.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#13 » by Trey24 » Fri Oct 10, 2025 3:40 pm

I was told that Kobe was an inefficient chucker that didn't help his team win by RealGM so there's no way that he could have been a good post-up guard according to RealGM.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#14 » by JinKaz69 » Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:36 pm

NZB2323 wrote:Baron Davis and Tmac could both score in the post, although sometimes Tmac was a small forward. If we’re counting small forwards Paul Pierce could score in the high post.

Love TMac and he was an amazing player during his prime but he didn't score much in the post.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#15 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:41 pm

I’d definitely say Kobe was the best post up guard since MJ. Wade was very good at posting up. Vince Carter as well. T-Mac who played about half his career at SG had a lot of those skills Kobe had in the post, but probably went to it less.

Derozan is a good, more modern mention. Brunson, despite his diminutive size/frame is almost surprisingly adept in the post. This would be my list, more or less in order of names mentioned.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#16 » by bkkrh » Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:51 pm

Mark Jackson and Andre Miller come to mind as well. Of course they didn´t score as much, but especially Andre Miller never developed a 3 pointer, was slow for a Point Guard and had multiple seasons where he averaged 15 to 17 points.
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#17 » by MMyhre » Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:19 pm

Article about Wade in february 2012 :
"But after James and Paul Pierce sandwiched right in the middle – here are the players currently behind Wade in post-up efficiency (1.014 points per possession).

Joe Johnson. LaMarcus Aldridge. Dirk Nowitzki. Kobe Bryant. Al Jefferson. Kevin Love. Dwight Howard. Andrew Bynum.

That isnt what is most impressive, or interesting, about Wades game on the blocks, however. Its how much time Wade used to spend down there, and how much he does now.

Between 2009 and 2011, about six percent of all of Wades used offensive possessions came in the post, or about 1.5 post-ups per game, give or take some passes out of double-teams to spot-up shooters. This season hes up to 13.1 percent of his possessions in the post, while making over half his shots there for the first time ever."
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#18 » by JinKaz69 » Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:28 pm


Penny ! Penny ! Penny !! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

(Pippen got torched several times)
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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#19 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:37 pm

Not the best, but definitely the most unexpected.





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Re: Is Kobe the best post-up guard since MJ? Who are the top 5 post-up guards all-time? 

Post#20 » by UcanUwill » Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:37 pm

Names not mentioned yet - Jason Kidd. Today - Payton Pritchard?

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