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last season, OKC went all the way with an historically young squad, while utilizing some unconventional tactics

it's pretty common for champions to influence the way other teams play, both in terms of style and in terms of tactics. some champions (Warriors come to mind) obviousy have that effect more than others. OKC used a very wide rotation,which was pretty unconventional in both the rs and the postseason and they also defended ultra-aggressively, basically betting on the fact that the refs can't (and won't) call every foul and played defense distinctly more aggressively than the rest of the league

obviously having an MVP caliber player helps alot and very few teams have that and not every team has the personnel, mobility\length\skills or the young legs across the board to effectively use those tactics but there are plenty of teams that can, at least to a certain degree

I haven't watched alot of preseason thus far but I already saw a few teams, defintely trying their hand at that sort of borderline fouling strategy

do you guys think we're gonna see alot more of those elements, both defensively and in terms of longer rotations and players coming in to play shorter stints than what we have been accustomed to and if so, is that good for the league and the game?

my answer is yes to both questions but I do worry it's going to to put alot of pressure on the refs and that as a result we're gonna hear a record number of complaints and constant talk about reffing discrepancies, moreso than usual that is

thoughts?

Trading older players for young future mvps and loads of picks sounds like a great idea but how often does that happen.

OKC has done a great job of building toward long term sustained success.

I suspect we will see the defensive aggression copied, but like everything, some teams will be better able to copy it than others. OKC had a bunch of quick, strong perimeter players which allowed them to be very aggressive and 1. be effective at it without looking like they were egregiously fouling (handcheck position is subtler when you're strong) 2. Not be overly worried if one of their guys picked up multiple fouls early. SGA is the only truly irreplaceable player on the team, so they had him play as the centerfield help defender to pick off passes as teams tried to escape the more physical point of attack defense. He is really good at the role, but he's also a good PoA defender and few teams would be deep enough to be able to have him as the third perimeter defender.

Most teams can’t copy it because one you need a bunch of dogs on defense but you also have to be smart. OKC defenders have very quick hands and are smart.

Given that OKC barely survived Indiana, with Haliburton injured, something is wrong with those tactics.
One of the most unconvincing champions of all-time...

namlede wrote:Most teams can’t copy it because one you need a bunch of dogs on defense but you also have to be smart. OKC defenders have very quick hands and are smart.

that's kind of the million dollar question

no doubt OKC had a plethora of young, athletic,long and smart "dogs" but how much of is really down to personnel vs. a system? it's def a mix of those two but in which ratio? I suspect than when we see more teams experiment with these tactics this season - we'll have a better answer for that question

Raptors showed some elements of that imo in the preseason and it wasn't with players that jump to one's mind when we think about "dogs"

i'm not sure you'd have to have "dogs" that are particularly smart, but you need athletic, quick, nimble and long player to execute it, that's for sure
were guys like Dort, Cason Wallace or whomever percieved as being particularly "smart" defenders prior to last season? I don't believe they were

part of it is def a system thing

bonita_the_frog wrote:Given that OKC barely survived Indiana, with Haliburton injured, something is wrong with those tactics.
One of the most unconvincing champions of all-time...

when has a team as young as that played really well in the finals? finals are a different level of pressure and OKC were coming off an incredibly tough and taxing series vs. the Nuggets as well. I think they would fared much better vs. Indy if that series was say..in the first round

also Haliburton was on a once in a lifetime clutch heater, that's gotta be tough mentally, especially for a team whose never been there on a franchise that's never been there. that's alot of pressure...

Just foul literally every play and hope the refs swallow their whistle ? Hopefully not.

JRoy wrote:Trading older players for young future mvps and loads of picks sounds like a great idea but how often does that happen.

OKC has done a great job of building toward long term sustained success.

Curry was an MVP caliber player under Mark Jackson too but he needed Kerr's system to fully realize his potential and the team's potential with him at the Center of it.

SGA obviously had the talent and skills regardless, but i'm not sure he'd be an MVP (and certainly not a champion) just yet, if it weren't for Mark D's tactics and uncoventional tactics and roster costruction\utilization. it's not as straight-forward as you make it out to be, ofc Presty made a killer trade that made all of that possible but there's a different between possibility and the realization of that possibility

Lunartic wrote:Just foul literally every play and hope the refs swallow their whistle ? Hopefully not.

I mean, i'd say that was a big part of it but seeing as it worked, wouldn't we expect more coaches and teams to go that route this season?

edit: it's also fouling in specific manners, not just flat out come out and blatantly foul, but having a kind of system to the specific spots wherein there's a bigger chance to get away with the added physicallity and borderline illegal contact

Exp0sed wrote:

JRoy wrote:Trading older players for young future mvps and loads of picks sounds like a great idea but how often does that happen.

OKC has done a great job of building toward long term sustained success.

Curry was an MVP caliber player under Mark Jackson too but he needed Kerr's system to fully realize his potential and the team's potential with him at the Center of it.

SGA obviously had the talent and skills regardless, but i'm not sure he'd be an MVP (and certainly not a champion) just yet, if it weren't for Mark D's tactics and uncoventional tactics and roster costruction\utilization. it's not as straight-forward as you make it out to be, ofc Presty made a killer trade that made all of that possible but there's a different between possibility and the realization of that possibility

My point is that it is not straightforward at all. OKC reaped the benefits of a rare combination of events created by shrewd GM action and a little luck.

bonita_the_frog wrote:Given that OKC barely survived Indiana, with Haliburton injured, something is wrong with those tactics.
One of the most unconvincing champions of all-time...

Dumb statement

It’s a long season . Sure why not try some parts of it and see if it works. Different personnel and scheme all notwithstanding.

The Bulls and Cavs definitely beat the **** out of each other in the opening quarters of their first two preseason games.

I’d imagine everyone is trying to get MVP level talents and super related two-way players.


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meekrab wrote:The Bulls and Cavs definitely beat the **** out of each other in the opening quarters of their first two preseason games.

The second game in particular I felt like the Bulls were daring the officials them out.

Copy OKC In getting injury resilient players

bonita_the_frog wrote:Given that OKC barely survived Indiana, with Haliburton injured, something is wrong with those tactics.
One of the most unconvincing champions of all-time...

Indiana was a very good team though.

Wolveswin wrote:

bonita_the_frog wrote:Given that OKC barely survived Indiana, with Haliburton injured, something is wrong with those tactics.
One of the most unconvincing champions of all-time...

Dumb statement

Is he wrong? Very unlikely OKC is winning game 7 if Haliburton doesn't get injured with the kind of game he was having.

meekrab wrote:The Bulls and Cavs definitely beat the **** out of each other in the opening quarters of their first two preseason games.

yup, saw that too!