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I've been in the minority for a while now on MPJ and believe he's wrongly maligned by the public. It's probably a bad time to post this as he's primed for a rough night against Ausar, but if I can't say it on down nights then I probably shouldn't say it at all

This isn't meant to be a dig at CJ who is fine but straight up, I consider MPJ to be the better/more impactful player. Obviously salaries played a part in DEN's decision to move on- which allowed them to add much needed depth- but the way I see it BKN made a great trade landing an undervalued building block + a FRP while the extra $$ is a non issue.

As such, I'm curious where people stand: who won the trade and which player is better in a vacuum?

GeorgeMarcus wrote:I've been in the minority for a while now on MPJ and believing he's wrongly maligned by the public. It's probably a bad time to post this as he's primed for a rough night against Ausar, but if I can't say it on down nights then I probably shouldn't say it at all

This isn't meant to be a dig on CJ who is fine but straight up, I consider MPJ to be the better/more impactful player. Obviously contracts played a part in DEN's decision to move on- which allowed them to add much needed depth- but the way I see it BKN made a great trade landing an undervalued building block + a FRP while extra $$ is a non issue.

As such, I'm curious where people stand: who won the trade and which player is better in a vacuum?

well, like u said no1 thought the gap between these two guys was huge in a vacuum but the salaries are a huge boon, as it let Denver add that depth

so when you compare it, you need to look at the trade as say: CJ + Jonas V + THJ vs. MPJ + a pick (a denver FRP is basically an SRP)

as for MPJ, there are a couple of things he does very well but other glaring holes in his game. Nuggets have a higher ceiling with CJ, on both ends of the floor but it's the defensive lapses that are the core issue. MPJ is a very low i.q player and he kept botching defensive reads,coverages and assignments

CJ is much better in those aspects and a much better fit

over the first 7-8 games, CJ has been very poor offensively. he's only playing about 27 mpg and taking just 7.8 FGA which is really low. he's also a career 40% from 3 on great volume, whose currently shooting 27% from 3, that will obviously regress to the mean later in the season

idk if it's getting accustmed to the Denver system, lifestyle or whatever the reasons may be but it's pretty likely he'll play much better as the season progresses and i don't read too much into his abysmal offensive start


as for MPJ, yeah he's chucking away to his heart's delight over in Brooklyn as everyone knew and expected and obviously their lineup is terrible with awful shooting and spacing, so it's hard to be too critical but currently he's shooting a shade under 34% from 3 on 9 3PA - that's pretty bad, or rather - very replaceable and thus, not that valuble

he also has 3 APG to 2,4 TO, which sums up pretty well his abilities as a playmaker and faciliator

in the context of this tanking Nets team, whose gonna put up shots? basically just him and Cam Thomas, now Cam is out for a while, look out as those volumes and efficiency from MPJ will drop ever further. it's better for MPJ to take 9 terriblle 3's at 34% (which would be by far the worst mark of his career), over non-shooting rookies but it doesn't actually have much value around the league

in a vacum both are useful role player and are about the same tier of players. I think most NBA teams, coaches and GM's would take Cam because of the I,Q difference and the intangibles but they're a similar caliber player


edit: i'd like to add that Cam wasn't likely to extend for the rebuilding Nets, so in a year or two he would have walked for free. getting something back for him makes sense, and MPJ and a pick is def "something" but honestly I think the Nets could have gotten more from a different team, over the summer or at the deadline

MPJ on his current contract isn't a positive asset, it's a neutral asset at best, I think the Nets could have done better because I don't really see how they turn MPJ into assets in the future, only when he'll be expiring but not a second before that

so all they got is a great tank commander because well, giving MPJ the green light to chuck and "create" is a surefire way to lose alot of games and a FRP that will be in the 25-30 range, think there was a better deal for them out there

as for the Nuggets, if the package is MPJ + that pick, I don't think they could have done better than CJ with that parituclar package, so I still see them as the clear cut winners in this trade and yeah, CJ has started poorly but he'll turn it around. no worries there.

If we are talking about this older version of Pop-Pop McCollum that we have now, then I think MPJ is a better on-court player in the current day.

For Denver, having a bench this season is a huge deal. With Jokic they can survive Johnson having a meh shooting season even if he doesn't turn it around completely. They're still gonna benefit a lot from his defense and ability to make basic passes compared to MPJ.

For Brooklyn, they're just a garbage team and MPJ is a straight up tank commander. Having a 2032 unprotected pick is an unknown but I guess it's enough to make it a win-win.

I don't really think CJ is going to keep scoring <10 points and shooting <30% from 3.

Trading MPJ for Cam Johnson gave the nuggets a bench. Also CJ will figure it out and be just fine. And most importantly, he won’t get hunted on defense in the playoffs like MPJ did.

Oh nevermind this isn't about McCollum lol

We got Val and much needed depth along with Cam. The Nuggets saved 18 million on the contract difference alone. Definitely a win for Nuggets.

MPJ was always the better player. Cam is a guy you want coming off your bench for 15-20 mpg to give you some efficient scoring in your second unit, that's it. He put up 19 ppg on the Nets last year because we gave him a role no good team should ever give him. This was about saving money.

As others have noted, the deal was really about the salary difference between the two allowing Denver to have credible depth.

IMO MPJ at his best is slightly better than Cam J at his best but lingering health questions with MPJ make his on-court value about equal. Cam J has had a slow start with Denver but MPJ has had runs at this level or worse before as well.

I only voted for which player is better. Based on everything I've seen so far on Denver MPJ is leaps and bounds the better player.

The trade was mostly about saving money, but man, it's shocking how bad Cam has been. He's playing with zero confidence right now.

We just need him to get back to his Phoenix role player days and the trade is fine. If he doesn't, Brooklyn fleeced us.

This is similar to the Giddey for Caruso trade. Giddey is the better player but it probably worked out well for both teams.

I'm not worried about Cam Johnson at all. It wasn't just about him anyway, this allowed Denver to gain three good bench players and resign Braun.

Someone had to go for those moves to happen, and it was either going to be MPJ or Murray. MPJ was the easy guy. He's getting his PPG, but the Nets are miserable, so who really cares.

Denver doesn't have regrets about this trade one bit, and neither do I. Johnson will be fine. And even if not, Denver is still a much better team this year.

MPJ can put up better stats, but that doesn't make him the better player.

zero rings wrote:The trade was mostly about saving money, but man, it's shocking how bad Cam has been. He's playing with zero confidence right now.

We just need him to get back to his Phoenix role player days and the trade is fine. If he doesn't, Brooklyn fleeced us.

Even if Cam never regains his PHX form it wasn’t a fleecing. Denver needed to get off MPJ’s contract to get a bench.

Sharkboy242 wrote:MPJ can put up better stats, but that doesn't make him the better player.

No, it doesn't, but I still think he's the better player

forget the TRADE

mpj hit his ceiling 3yrs ago

I don't get the tank commander narrative, when has that ever been true of MPJ? This is the first season in his career with a negative Net Rtg, which he makes up for with an expectedly high on/off

Even if you ignore the ring on his finger, his impact profile is solid. Defense is generally the main source of criticism but he's put up positive defensive on offs in 5 of 7 seasons. For that to be true, I can't help thinking he's at least passable on that end. Maybe his physical advantages offset what appears to be bad defense? Idk... Just spitballing in hopes to close the gap between public perception and my own. The cherry on top is high scoring efficiency, which is usually a fan favorite when it comes to player analysis

Color me stumped on MPJ. I hereby conclude that I'm right and the masses are wrong, class dismissed

Even with Cam struggling so far, its early, and you need to take into account possible locker room upgrade over MPJ, who appears to be a pretty lose personality.

It was a mistake. MPJ is a lot better than CJ.

A healthy MPJ is a difference maker. Granted he's hurt a lot but CJ isn't a difference maker regardless. Had MPJ not hurt his shoulder vs the Clippers last year, the Nuggets may well have won their 2nd title.

Denver should have gambled on good health because it's their best shot to win a title. A better shot than adding some modest depth which if they're healthy will only see meager postseason minutes. If they're not healthy then they're probably dead anyway.

Some people aren't quite understanding. If MPJ was making Cam Johnson money, he'd probably be on the team. But he was outrageously overpaid, and it was keeping Denver from reinforcing the roster. The bench players may not even play during the playoffs, but if they can keep Murray, Gordon and Jokic from playing too many regular season minutes, it was worth it. Also, they were able to extend Braun, which they probably wouldn't have been able to do.

MPJ is a good player. I've been a defender of his for years. But that contract had to be moved. He's not worth nearly that much money, which is why Denver had to attach a first round pick to trade the better player.

It's more complicated than simply player A is better than player B.

Everybody on this board did nothing but bash MPJ for years. Called him the most overpaid player in the league. But now that he's putting up decent high volume stats on a miserable team with no other scorers, it's suddenly a mistake and Denver should have run it back with the same team that didn't look right all last year. This board just never knows what they want. Denver looks better this year than pretty much any point last year. Nuggets fans are happy.