Has Jokic given up (if just a little) mentally? Plz read, no hot takes and zero hate for my dude

[Rubios]

All his teammates have repeatedly praised Jokic’s commitment to the team and locker room, his leadership by example, and his work ethic (going to the gym even AFTER games if that’s what the trainers recommended).
The whole “the guy just doesn’t care” has been debunked a BAZILLION times; some people mistake being a normal person who dislikes the spotlight for lacking competitiveness.
In a locker room with new faces, starting what should have been an exciting, title-contending new project, he showed up in terrible physical shape.
Maybe he needed it, physically and/or mentally. but every player has their own life and struggles, and for a leader of his magnitude, it has no justification.

I know how Jokic has been playing after that poor first game, and if you’ve read my other posts, you’ll know I’m not biased against him: IMO, Jokic has been the best player in the league for at least three years.
You can stop reading here, or keep going for a couple of more tangential points below:

1. Everything about Jokic suggests he’s not the kind of guy who’d be indifferent to Malone’s departure. I’m convinced he has great affection for him, and I believe he sees the management & Booth as the ones responsible for dismantling the team for the cheap.
But pointing fingers at Booth wasn’t an option, since some of his teammates are Booth’s personal bets.
So he kept things cold and clinical because otherwise, no matter what he said, someone would get hurt. As with regular people, if he’s got something to say to Malone, he can just call him as I'm confident he did.

Same goes for Adelman. Is he the best possible coach? I’m sure they asked Jokic, “Just say one name: who do you want?”
Adelman’s been around him for years, he probably has personal affection for him, so he backed keeping him in charge.

2. A fourth MVP would actually be a burden for Jokic.
I don’t mean in the obvious “he’d rather have a ring than an individual award” way. I mean that without a second ring, a fourth MVP would put him in a tough spot. Moses Malone also has three MVPs and only one ring.

And while LeBron had just one title when he won his fourth MVP (he’d win his second that same year), he eventually reached four.
I think a fourth MVP without another ring would feel like a weight and not an honor for someone like Jokic.
I can picture him going low key (as "low key" as Jokic can be lol) leading the league in assists and rebounds, posting insane TS%, but keeping his PPG just low enough to stay out of the race.

[bonita_the_frog]

The west is so freakishly competitive, Denver really need the home-court ad in the playoffs, so if Jokic is giving up on the regular season (taking a backseat too often to Murray, instead of taking charge and looking to score - and nobody scores more efficiently than Jokic, so he SHOULD be looking to score) then he's giving up on the championship ultimately

[Sane]

No. Bigs have to slow it down as they get older. They are involved in every defensive play from their rookie season onwards. That means running up and down the court, knees from wing players, elbows from big men, fighting for rebounds, etc. It's not just cardio.

Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt are arguably the greatest two-way C's of all time and they all had to start seasons slow later in their career so that they'd peak at game 82 entering the playoffs. It's a long season, you can't be in elite shape at the start and go 100% all season and pretend like it won't leave you a little more tired at playoff time.

I'm sure it also selfishly helps for their team to not be too dependent on them.

Jokic has earned it but it's 100% his responsibility to peak at playoff time.

[og15]

All his teammates have repeatedly praised Jokic’s commitment to the team and locker room, his leadership by example, and his work ethic (going to the gym even AFTER games if that’s what the trainers recommended).
The whole “the guy just doesn’t care” has been debunked a BAZILLION times; some people mistake being a normal person who dislikes the spotlight for lacking competitiveness.
In a locker room with new faces, starting what should have been an exciting, title-contending new project, he showed up in terrible physical shape.
Maybe he needed it, physically and/or mentally. but every player has their own life and struggles, and for a leader of his magnitude, it has no justification.

I know how Jokic has been playing after that poor first game, and if you’ve read my other posts, you’ll know I’m not biased against him: IMO, Jokic has been the best player in the league for at least three years.
You can stop reading here, or keep going for a couple of more tangential points below:

1. Everything about Jokic suggests he’s not the kind of guy who’d be indifferent to Malone’s departure. I’m convinced he has great affection for him, and I believe he sees the management & Booth as the ones responsible for dismantling the team for the cheap.
But pointing fingers at Booth wasn’t an option, since some of his teammates are Booth’s personal bets.
So he kept things cold and clinical because otherwise, no matter what he said, someone would get hurt. As with regular people, if he’s got something to say to Malone, he can just call him as I'm confident he did.

Same goes for Adelman. Is he the best possible coach? I’m sure they asked Jokic, “Just say one name: who do you want?”
Adelman’s been around him for years, he probably has personal affection for him, so he backed keeping him in charge.

2. A fourth MVP would actually be a burden for Jokic.
I don’t mean in the obvious “he’d rather have a ring than an individual award” way. I mean that without a second ring, a fourth MVP would put him in a tough spot. Moses Malone also has three MVPs and only one ring.

And while LeBron had just one title when he won his fourth MVP (he’d win his second that same year), he eventually reached four.
I think a fourth MVP without another ring would feel like a weight and not an honor for someone like Jokic.
I can picture him going low key (as "low key" as Jokic can be lol) leading the league in assists and rebounds, posting insane TS%, but keeping his PPG just low enough to stay out of the race.

So he'd go down to like 10ppg?

I'm not sure how you think he can lead the league in those things, score at any decent amount that allows his team to win a lot and not be in the MVP race.

I'm not big on the psychoanalysis stuff that we sometimes like to do as fans, basically, I can say, "sure, maybe" to just about all the theories you proposed, but it's still all just conjecture

[nomansland]

I dispute the idea that he came into the season in terrible shape. He wasn't in the best shape of his life, but terrible is a bad exaggeration.

Beyond that I don't understand the point of the post. Asking if he's given up mentally goes right down the path of the "he doesn't care about basketball" BS that the OP says has been debunked a bazillion times. And nothing in the post really expounds on the question of whether he's given up mentally.

[Rubios]

My point is he will even avoid being a MVP contender, BUT still playing at his level or even improving. Just personal feeling that in today's NBA a player is out of the conversation avg 25 PPG i.e.

And he's not the kind of guy to do "whatever it takes" if that means firing people.

[Rubios]

No. Big been have to slow it down as they get older. They are involved in ever defensive play from their rookie season onwards. That means running up and down the court, knees from wing players, elbows from big men, fighting for rebounds, etc. It's not just cardio.

Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt arguably the greatest two-way C's of all time and they all had to start seasons slow later in their career so that they'd peak at game 82 entering the playoffs. It's a long season, you can't be in elite shape at the start and go 100% all season and pretend like it won't leave you a little more tired at playoff time.

I'm sure it also selfishly helps for their team to not be too dependent on the.

Jokic has earned it but it's 100% his responsibility to peak at playoff time.

Great insight, thks!

[doogie_hauser]

Wouldn't have thought so. At any rate it's far too premature to make any bold declarations on any player and or team

Joker is very inscrutable because he is such an introvert/private person, which honestly i think adds to the aura and his legacy to be honest.

I really appreciate and love the quiet achieving superstars/Legends of the game, especially centres like Joker and Tim Duncan (and David Robinson to a degree)

Denver was the team that pushed The Thunder the most in last years Western Conference playoffs, so they should not be underestimated.

[HotRocks34]

Adelman on less Jokic scoring. I think this was after the last Warriors game.






Basically:

* Less wear and tear on Jokic
* Variety on offense

The less teams can load up their defenses against Jokic, the better Denver should do in the playoffs.

[Ayt]

What a bizarre post.

[sashaturiaf]

Honestly I think he's just bored. It's November

[Ssj16]

What a bizarre post.

Yea, I don't get the point of the post. If you watched last nights game, Jokic seems engaged and is having fun out there. The vibes are waaaaay different than last season where it was pretty toxic for most of the season and we actually seen Jokic get frustrated for the first time.

Jokic doesn't chase the MVP like some players (cough, Embiid), he puts in work and is geared towards the bigger picture of winning it all.

It's just that Jokic is so great, that his baseline play is MVP.

This is no different than Lebron post Miami. He was still the best player in the NBA who was always in the MVP mix with his baseline play. Once the playoffs came around, he'd put it into another gear.

[Peregrine01]

Jokic barely even trying means 25/13/12 on 73% TS. The guy can't avoid not being an MVP candidate.

[Karate Diop]

It kind of makes sense early on... New faces, new coach, so instead of riding the star to cover weaknesses let's build this from the ground up and make sure we have system that'll work come playoff time.

[Ben-N1ce]

It's wearing on him that he can't physically dominate like Shaq anymore and has to rely on skill.

[nate33]

His scoring is only down 3.2 points per 100 possessions (from 38.7 to 35.6 per 100 possessions) but his assists per 100 are up a whopping 3.4 from 13.4 to 16.8. Since 1 assist leads to 2 (or more) points, that's actually improved offensive production. His rebounds are up too. And his TS% is up from .663 last year to .733 this year. His team is in 2nd-place in the West as expected.

Statistically, Jokic is actually having his best season ever. His PER is 35. His BPM is a preposterous 18.4. And his WS/48 is .420

What are we even talking about here?

[FreeBird23]

I'm NOT concerned

[Thaddy]

Jokic is by far the best player in the NBA. If you plug Giannis or Shai in the same team they aren't as good.

[brackdan70]

I don’t see any evidence of that.
He is leading the league in rebounds and assists while averaging over 25ppg and advanced stats are off the charts. His team is looking like a contender again.

[og15]

Jokic is by far the best player in the NBA. If you plug Giannis or Shai in the same team they aren't as good.

This is true, but the team is also built based on Jokic's skillset and to compliment him. If you we're trying to build a better team around Giannis or Shai, this roster would not be the players you choose, and neither is Giannis roster if you wanted a better team around Jokic, though that roster is not that great in general, but weaker perimeter defense, another C starting, no big defensive forward, it wouldn't make sense.