RealGM

Including this season, he's having the best 6 year stretch of offense EVER. Just look at his box score stats. 6 seasons of a 31+ PER, 6 straight with a 12+ BPM (5 straight of 13+). He is currently having probably the greatest season ever. Just look at his stats. It's videogame ****.

I know these stats are far from perfect, but it just shows his complete and utter dominance. The guy is the greatest offensive player ever. Better than MJ, better than LeBron. It doesn't seem close anymore. His extended peak is better than anything we have seen. The guy is incredible.

Yes, we can. Only a few haters on this board will go beyond logic, close their eyes, and make believe otherwise.

Jokic just doesn't... "look" like he should be the GOAT offensive player.

But anyone watching how he commands the game knows it's true.

In a regular season where you're not allowed to defend I have a hard time crowning anyone based on those achievements.

Now do you really believe him to be the greatest offensive player in the NBA playoffs that you have ever seen?

I think he pretty clearly is the most impactful offensive player in the history of the game. He's hit a level where he virtually has no weakness on that end of the floor.

I don't think it will ever be accepted by the masses though because he doesn't look the part and only has one ring(so far atleast).

Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

Today I learned that a playoff run of 30/14/10 on 55% FG%, 45% 3P% is not "elite offensive results".

Find me 10 better playoff runs that make this not "elite playoff offensive results"...

Jokic de-sensitized yall to incredible statistical box scores...now anything short of 40/10/10 for him looks bad....

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

nah put some effort into ur argument or get out.

name a playoff series he was favored in and should have won but didn't. then compare the amount of series he's lost as a favorite and compare that to the amount of times other all time greats have lost as favorites. is he average, worse, or better than others. i dont wanna spoil it the answer for u

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

27/12/8 on 61% TS and an average BPM of 10.8 in 94 playoff games isn't elite? And that is all while never having played with a single All-Star/All-NBA teammate to take defensive pressure off of him.

The bar for GOAT offensive player is very, very high.

I would like to see more than one postseason from a 30 year old player where he leads a playoff offense that achieves elite results before crowning him GOAT. And no, 30-13-12 or whatever if it doesn’t come in the context of an elite playoff offense does not measure up to the offensive GOATs.

Cubbies2120 wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

Today I learned that a playoff run of 30/14/10 on 55% FG%, 45% 3P% is not "elite offensive results".

Find me 10 better playoff runs that make this not "elite playoff offensive results"...

You can't really get upset at people wanting Jokic to lead his team to the NBA Finals 4-6 times like other all-time greats. He doesn't even have to win a bunch of chips. People just want to see that greatness play out over years on the biggest stage.

2023 was awesome. No one is denying that. But there are some greats who have 6-7 years of four rounds of playoffs, where the competition gets harder and the attrition becomes a factor.

This is not asking much here.

Chuck Everett wrote:

Cubbies2120 wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

Today I learned that a playoff run of 30/14/10 on 55% FG%, 45% 3P% is not "elite offensive results".

Find me 10 better playoff runs that make this not "elite playoff offensive results"...

You can't really get upset at people wanting Jokic to lead his team to the NBA Finals 4-6 times like other all-time greats. He doesn't even have to win a bunch of chips. People just want to see that greatness play out over years on the biggest stage.

2023 was awesome. No one is denying that. But there are some greats who have 6-7 years of four rounds of playoffs, where the competition gets harder and the attrition becomes a factor.

This is not asking much here.

It is asking much when you consider he has never played with another All-Star/All-NBA player in his career. Basketball is a team sport. How many other all-time greats had as little help as Jokic has had in his career?

Raps in 4 wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Today I learned that a playoff run of 30/14/10 on 55% FG%, 45% 3P% is not "elite offensive results".

Find me 10 better playoff runs that make this not "elite playoff offensive results"...

You can't really get upset at people wanting Jokic to lead his team to the NBA Finals 4-6 times like other all-time greats. He doesn't even have to win a bunch of chips. People just want to see that greatness play out over years on the biggest stage.

2023 was awesome. No one is denying that. But there are some greats who have 6-7 years of four rounds of playoffs, where the competition gets harder and the attrition becomes a factor.

This is not asking much here.

It is asking much when you consider he has never played with another All-Star/All-NBA player in his career. Basketball is a team sport. How many either all-time greats had the same lack of help? None.

So you're only defining him by being the best due to his box score only? As long as he gets gaudy numbers he's auto the best?

Chuck Everett wrote:

Cubbies2120 wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

Today I learned that a playoff run of 30/14/10 on 55% FG%, 45% 3P% is not "elite offensive results".

Find me 10 better playoff runs that make this not "elite playoff offensive results"...

You can't really get upset at people wanting Jokic to lead his team to the NBA Finals 4-6 times like other all-time greats. He doesn't even have to win a bunch of chips. People just want to see that greatness play out over years on the biggest stage.

2023 was awesome. No one is denying that. But there are some greats who have 6-7 years of four rounds of playoffs, where the competition gets harder and the attrition becomes a factor.

This is not asking much here.

I don't mean this in an offensive way and am not directing this towards you, but this is why all the normies that think Kobe is top 3 all time would say Jokic has no case as a GOAT. They struggle to understand that basketball is a team game and would point to rangz. Jokic has done the best he can with his surrounding cast. Swap him with SGA and swap Hartenstein for the guard equivalent of him (impact wise) and Joker wins a title every damn season.

bovice wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

nah put some effort into ur argument or get out.

name a playoff series he was favored in and should have won but didn't. then compare the amount of series he's lost as a favorite and compare that to the amount of times other all time greats have lost as favorites. is he average, worse, or better than others. i dont wanna spoil it the answer for u

My argument is exceptionally simple:

The offensive GOAT needs to have lead more than one elite offensive playoff run by age 30. Jokic box score stats while impressive have not produced elite playoff offensive results for his team EVEN when only filtering for his on-court offensive rating.

The offensive GOAT is a player so unstoppable that his team offense is unstoppable in a playoff setting. Why do I argue this way? Because the REAL offensive GOATs have proven this over and over again.

Steph, LeBron, Jordan, Magic, Bird all had multiple and counting under their belts by this age.

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

I call it like it is brother. I'm a straight shooter who only deals in facts. LeBron is obviously still the GOAT, but Jokic is the offensive GOAT and will be a GOAT candidate when all is said and done.

EmpireFalls wrote:

bovice wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:Why hasn’t he had elite playoff offensive results?

This is disappointing from you OP. Spend all day defending LeBron and then just give up and impromptu admit Jokic is better offensively because he puts up some nice box score numbers? What happened to your passion?

nah put some effort into ur argument or get out.

name a playoff series he was favored in and should have won but didn't. then compare the amount of series he's lost as a favorite and compare that to the amount of times other all time greats have lost as favorites. is he average, worse, or better than others. i dont wanna spoil it the answer for u

My argument is exceptionally simple:

The offensive GOAT needs to have lead more than one elite offensive playoff run by age 30. Jokic box score stats while impressive have not produced elite playoff offensive results for his team EVEN when only filtering for his on-court offensive rating.

The offensive GOAT is a player so unstoppable that his team offense is unstoppable in a playoff setting. Why do I argue this way? Because the REAL offensive GOATs have proven this over and over again.

Steph, LeBron, Jordan, Magic, Bird all had multiple and counting under their belts by this age.

you don't win in the playoffs unless you have a strong supporting cast. jordan doesn't win w/o pippen. shaq doesn't win w/o kobe. lebron doesn't win w/o wade/kyrie. bird doesn't win w/o mchale. if ur argument is that jokic didn't win with will barton and monte morris so he's eliminated from the conversation i don't really know what to say....

Chuck Everett wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:
You can't really get upset at people wanting Jokic to lead his team to the NBA Finals 4-6 times like other all-time greats. He doesn't even have to win a bunch of chips. People just want to see that greatness play out over years on the biggest stage.

2023 was awesome. No one is denying that. But there are some greats who have 6-7 years of four rounds of playoffs, where the competition gets harder and the attrition becomes a factor.

This is not asking much here.

It is asking much when you consider he has never played with another All-Star/All-NBA player in his career. Basketball is a team sport. How many either all-time greats had the same lack of help? None.

So you're only defining him by being the best due to his box score only? As long as he gets gaudy numbers he's auto the best?

Yeah. The question isn't "what is the greatest offensive team ever?" but "who is the greatest offensive player ever?"

It's between him and Curry, I wouldn't dethrone Curry this quick, but the lack of PO success argument is legitimate, and he should win more to really earn this title.

Raps in 4 wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
It is asking much when you consider he has never played with another All-Star/All-NBA player in his career. Basketball is a team sport. How many either all-time greats had the same lack of help? None.

So you're only defining him by being the best due to his box score only? As long as he gets gaudy numbers he's auto the best?

Yeah. The question isn't "what is the greatest offensive team ever?" but "who is the greatest offensive player ever?"

Then why not Curry over Jokic if that's the case? Curry's offensive gravity has had a much larger effect than Jokic's has, if we're being honest.

bovice wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:

bovice wrote:
nah put some effort into ur argument or get out.

name a playoff series he was favored in and should have won but didn't. then compare the amount of series he's lost as a favorite and compare that to the amount of times other all time greats have lost as favorites. is he average, worse, or better than others. i dont wanna spoil it the answer for u

My argument is exceptionally simple:

The offensive GOAT needs to have lead more than one elite offensive playoff run by age 30. Jokic box score stats while impressive have not produced elite playoff offensive results for his team EVEN when only filtering for his on-court offensive rating.

The offensive GOAT is a player so unstoppable that his team offense is unstoppable in a playoff setting. Why do I argue this way? Because the REAL offensive GOATs have proven this over and over again.

Steph, LeBron, Jordan, Magic, Bird all had multiple and counting under their belts by this age.

you don't win in the playoffs unless you have a strong supporting cast. jordan doesn't win w/o pippen. shaq doesn't win w/o kobe. lebron doesn't win w/o wade/kyrie. bird doesn't win w/o mchale. if ur argument is that jokic didn't win with will barton and monte morris so he's eliminated from the conversation i don't really know what to say....

You may not win but you can produce elite offensive results as the offensive GOAT. And I’m not talking about 2021 or 2022 even.

2024 and 2025 Denver’s playoff offense with him on the floor was below league average. Yes, really. 2025 Denver w/ Jokic ON (111.7 ORTG), they were -1.3 relative to Playoff ORTG league average.