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Game 1: Cavs win 126-113
Game 2: Cavs win 115-105
Game 3: Raptors win 126-104
Game 4: Raptors win 93-89
Game 5: Cavs win 125-120
Game 6: Raptors win 112-110 (OT)
Game 7: Sunday May 3, TBD





(Continued from here: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2504980 )

Raps in 6 babyyyyy

THE FUTURE

I'm so conflicted.

On one hand, I want Cleveland to win because if we don't win here, and we end up losing the series, we're hitting the panic button and making major changes that are going to more than likely put us in no man's land for years given we own no first rounders for the rest of the decade.

On the other hand, if Harden does another classic choke performance and costs Cleveland the series, my hope is that it would give Cleveland a very serious wakeup call. It sucks that they're in the position they're in now because they got greedy considering how awesome the potential was, but they got to learn the hard way. And them winning the finals this year justifies that poor decision.

Overall, I have no confidence that Cleveland is going to win this series. They won the first two games entirely off of Harden having two uncharacteristically great offensive performances against a good defense and CMB is a very serious problem that we can't figure out.

Out of all the series this is a series tied 2-2. I mean really Cleveland?

Windy pointed out before the series that this wasn't going to be a cake walk for CLE & 1 of his reasons is that Barnes always elevates his game when facing Mobley

Through 4 games:

Barnes
25.8 PPG 4.8 RPG 7.3 APG 1.0 SPG 1.1 BPG
52.3% on 16.3 FGA
46.7% on 3.8 3PA
75.7% on 9.3 FTA
57.7% EFG 63.4% TS

Mobley
16.3 PPG 7.5 RPG 4.0 APG 0.8 SPG 0.8 BPG
54.3% on 11.5 FGA
18.2% on 2.8 3PA
76.5% on 4.3 FTA
56.5% EFG 60.8% TS

dakomish23 wrote:Windy pointed out before the series that this wasn't going to be a cake walk for CLE & 1 of his reasons is that Barnes always elevates his game when facing Mobley

Through 4 games:

Barnes
25.8 PPG 4.8 RPG 7.3 APG 1.0 SPG 1.1 BPG
52.3% on 16.3 FGA
46.7% on 3.8 3PA
75.7% on 9.3 FTA
57.7% EFG 63.4% TS

Mobley
16.3 PPG 7.5 RPG 4.0 APG 0.8 SPG 0.8 BPG
54.3% on 11.5 FGA
18.2% on 2.8 3PA
76.5% on 4.3 FTA
56.5% EFG 60.8% TS

Man, Scottie in the last 4 games is playing like a version of himself I always hoped, but didn't think, he had. I am pretty sure as recently as like 2-3 months ago, I said I'd probably still prefer Mobley. How dumb does that sound now.

Iwasawitness wrote:I'm so conflicted.

On one hand, I want Cleveland to win because if we don't win here, and we end up losing the series, we're hitting the panic button and making major changes that are going to more than likely put us in no man's land for years given we own no first rounders for the rest of the decade.

On the other hand, if Harden does another classic choke performance and costs Cleveland the series, my hope is that it would give Cleveland a very serious wakeup call. It sucks that they're in the position they're in now because they got greedy considering how awesome the potential was, but they got to learn the hard way. And them winning the finals this year justifies that poor decision.

Overall, I have no confidence that Cleveland is going to win this series. They won the first two games entirely off of Harden having two uncharacteristically great offensive performances against a good defense and CMB is a very serious problem that we can't figure out.

Trading for Harden was a mistake and a waste of the asset (Garland). He does not make your team a contender in the East.

Knicks and Celts will embarrass your team if you make it to the ECF (they will surely embarass the Raptors, I think). And then there's okc and the Spurs.

I mean, a true contender should mop the floor with this instance of the Raptors, but the moment the Raps put up a fight the Cavs did not look like the obvious better team. They looked apathetic, Mitchel and Harden need to play way better. Cavs did not look like a contender at all the past 2 games. They are a good team but not contenders.

I really like Mobley but I hope people understand now how Raps have been saying for the last few years how Scottie is better than Mobley. In every skill both offensively and defensively too. I found the media hype for Mobley weird considering he's been carried with top tier talent. If you swap both players, the Raps are worse and CLE is better. That's all you need to know.

LoveMyRaps wrote:THE FUTURE

these 2 guys on 1 team is unfair

Wolfgang630 wrote:Out of all the series this is a series tied 2-2. I mean really Cleveland?

I know right? This is more worrisome for the Cavs than exciting for the Raptors.

We know our ceiling and I still expect Cleveland to win this series. But it doesn't inspire confidence for future rounds.

Duffman100 wrote:

Wolfgang630 wrote:Out of all the series this is a series tied 2-2. I mean really Cleveland?

I know right? This is more worrisome for the Cavs than exciting for the Raptors.

We know our ceiling and I still expect Cleveland to win this series. But it doesn't inspire confidence for future rounds.

Harden will get that backcourt violation flop call next series and all will be OK for the Cavs.

Mitchell is more concerning for me. He is basically being played evenly with RJ Barrett. As much as I malign Brandon Ingram and he certainly deserves it, what happens if he actually has a decent game, not even good?

Mitchell needs to have a statement game. As for Mobley, he seems kind of content to remain in the background and not demand touches. I remember saying last year that his DPOY and all-NBA might come back to bite Cleveland because he received the elevated max. He's settling into elite role player status, it seems.

The tanking/be bad for a few years contingent can point to San Antonio and Oklahoma City, but more often than not your team will actually end up like Cleveland or Houston. Good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win it all.

Idk. Anyone complaining about the refs are out to lunch. What's being exposed for what feels like the 3rd or 4th straight year is the cavs have an epidemic of SOFT big men. And they're getting handled by undersized bigs in this series. Whistles wont change that. Refs wont save you.

The cavs might still win this series but the next talented team they matchup with that also can bully their soft bigs will absolutely be sending them home. Such as the knicks. They'll live through that Mitchell Robinson nightmare a 2nd time.

Duffman100 wrote:

Wolfgang630 wrote:Out of all the series this is a series tied 2-2. I mean really Cleveland?

I know right? This is more worrisome for the Cavs than exciting for the Raptors.

We know our ceiling and I still expect Cleveland to win this series. But it doesn't inspire confidence for future rounds.

And this is why blaming the refs in the previous thread is sour grapes. The Cavs have much more talent and vastly more playoff experience than the Raptors who have been also without a key player the entire series, their starting PG, due to injury.

The talent gap favoring the Cavs is great enough that even if you assume the refs favored the Raps, it should only have resulted in a lesser winning margin for CLE. The Raptors shot a paltry 31/97 FG and 4/30 from 3PT. Complain about 8-sec rule the refs called? It shouldn't have come to that.

The reason TOR won was because of pure grit, they wanted it more. Any complaints about yesterday's loss should focus on CLE's poor effort & complacency. CLE the superior talented team was ahead by 8 points, 84-76, with under 5 min left in the game. Refs or not, they lost it.

Chuck Everett wrote:Mitchell is more concerning for me. He is basically being played evenly with RJ Barrett. As much as I malign Brandon Ingram and he certainly deserves it, what happens if he actually has a decent game, not even good?

Mitchell needs to have a statement game. As for Mobley, he seems kind of content to remain in the background and not demand touches. I remember saying last year that his DPOY and all-NBA might come back to bite Cleveland because he received the elevated max. He's settling into elite role player status, it seems.

The tanking/be bad for a few years contingent can point to San Antonio and Oklahoma City, but more often than not your team will actually end up like Cleveland or Houston. Good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win it all.

One thing for Barnes is the last 1.5 years where he got to try out different ways of playing because they were going to lose anyways. He never really took turnaround fadeaways until part way through last year and started to get pretty good at them, shot 47% 8-16 feet whereas 34% the year before. He used that to perfection in game 3 where he only actually made 1 basket around the rim. Mobley playing with Mitchell and now Harden and always trying to compete, never really had the opportunity to develop any kind of iso game.

For Mitchell I think Toronto's defense really changed how he tried to score with starting Jakobe, even though he ended -15, at 6"4 it would make team defense rotations easier and thus harder for Mitchell to pull off some of the bull he does, so it was harder for him to get going by the time Shead got into the game. Looking back at all of Mitchells shots last game, every shot he did make was an extremely hard shot to create.

Plus team defense was much better all around. Looking quickly at Barnes on Harden who went 5/5 in game 2, one was a straight forearm push that caused Barnes to fall down for an open 3, one has BI screening Barnes himself for Harden to come off a screen for an open 3, another was Mamu deciding to leave Harden on the PNR to avoid giving up an open 3 to..... Mobley which was then basically an easy layup for Harden.

I never really saw many if any team defensive mistakes for Mitchell last game like that. Same with Mobley where in game 2 the Raptors defense broke down and he got a bunch of easy lobs/finishes right at the rim with little resistance, whereas last game he only had 1 off a turnover on the fastbreak. Everything else was a tougher 8-10 foot shot or he had to create it on Poeltl 1 v 1, which is much harder than just going 10/11 on lobs. Same story in game 3 where he did get 3 easy hand offs, otherwise the Raptors were fine with him taking 3's or trying to create his own shot.

Which to say the Raptors did a much better job stopping Harden and Mitchell from pulling off some bull like they can do, while also making sure Mobley had to work for every bucket.

Cleveland also did a much better job making the Raptors work for every bucket, forcing 13 3's from Jakobe and Shead. So while people are saying last game was brickville, which it was, it was also just really good defense by both teams. But with the Cavs at home now, I totally expect Harden and Mitchell to pull off some bull again.

canada_dry wrote:Idk. Anyone complaining about the refs are out to lunch. What's being exposed for what feels like the 3rd or 4th straight year is the cavs have an epidemic of SOFT big men. And they're getting handled by undersized bigs in this series. Whistles wont change that. Refs wont save you.

The cavs might still win this series but the next talented team they matchup with that also can bully their soft bigs will absolutely be sending them home. Such as the knicks. They'll live through that Mitchell Robinson nightmare a 2nd time.

the funniest thing about this series imo is that everyone keeps saying the raps' frontcourt is undersized - when they're BIGGER than the cavs' frontcourt.

If I'm Kenny, I'm bringing in Bryant for some minutes to help with the Toronto physicality. I don't know why we aren't utilizing him, especially given what he did to us last year.

Regular Season Team Stats:

TOR: 114.6pts for, 111.8pts against, +2.8pts diff (#11) --- 115.0 offrating, 112.1 defrating, +2.9 netrating (#11)
CLE: 119.5pts for, 115.4pts against, +4.1pts diff (#9) ----- 118.3 offrating, 114.1 defrating, +4.1 netrating (#9)


Playoffs

TOR: 109.3pts for, 108.5pts against, +0.8pts diff ----- 112.3 offrating, 111.0 defrating, +1.3 netrating
CLE: 108.5pts for, 109.3pts against, -0.8pts diff ------ 111.0 offrating, 112.3 defrating, -1.3 netrating


I think everyone just really wanted to believe that the raps were going to play down in the playoffs for whatever reasons. But there was no real reason to think that would happen.

For all the talk about how much more talented the Cavs are, it's the Raps that are rolling an 8 man rotation with a #2, #3, #4, #9, #9, and #19 picks (with with two 2nd rounders (an injured #25 pick). The Cavs are rolling an 8 man rotation with a #3, #3, #13, #20, #22 picks, with one 2nd rounder and 2 undrafted players.

Cleveland still has the advantage to win this series, but nobody should be surprised it's a close series.