Page 1 of 4
Hornets need savin!!
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:48 pm
by greenbeans
not sure if this has been posted yet but i couldnt find it.
Hornets apparently need to average 15k per game at home through 09 to keep lease intact.
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... tics_blog/
The Boston Globe has learned that the New Orleans Hornets are expected to announce today that if they don't average close to 15,000 fans in home games starting with tonight's contest against the Los Angeles Lakers through all home games until February of 2009, the franchise will be allowed out of their lease
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:56 pm
by 2poor
If Shinn decides to opt-out, it would cost him over $100M in penalties. Attendance will pick up, TV deal should be taken care of within the next 3 weeks....this team isn't going anywhere.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 8:59 pm
by NetsForce
Basically they're doomed.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:04 pm
by Blame Rasho
I don't want the Hornets to move but I just can't see them getting that attendance up. How many people actually have the disposable income to continuously attend basketball games in that area? Oh and honestly Shinn might be the worst owner in the NBA.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:08 pm
by 2poor
TD is the MAN wrote:I don't want the Hornets to move but I just can't see them getting that attendance up. How many people actually have the disposable income to continuously attend basketball games in that area? Oh and honestly Shinn might be the worst owner in the NBA.
Years ago Shinn was the devil, but he and the organization are doing everything "the right way" now. This is on the fans now, and there are plenty of affordable seats. At least 2 of their next 3 home games will be sell-outs (if not all 3).
N.O. City Council has put the hammer down and a TV deal will be in place so the areas surrounding NO will finally be able to watch the Hornets on TV, which will obviously give attendance a boost.
Please don't say they're "doomed" if you have little-to-no knowledge of how things have been going down since their return.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:08 pm
by brown_kids
NetsForce wrote:Basically they're doomed.
Nice sig
as usual
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:09 pm
by greenbeans
2poor wrote:If Shinn decides to opt-out, it would cost him over $100M in penalties. Attendance will pick up, TV deal should be taken care of within the next 3 weeks....this team isn't going anywhere.
that seems like a pretty solid opt-out to me. i hope they stay, its a tough situation though.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:12 pm
by 2poor
It seems a lot "tougher" than it really is. They have more corporate support than the organization has ever had (since Charlotte days even), pretty much every one of the luxury suites has been leased, lower bowl season tickets are pretty much all spoken for, and the TV deal (and the end of LSU's season) will reinvigorate the area.
The attendance problems they're having are with the $10-25 upper bowl seats that your "casual fan" would normally occupy...if said casual fan was able to watch them on TV from time-to-time (which most of the area hasn't been able to do).
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:19 pm
by Blame Rasho
2poor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Years ago, Shinn and the organization are doing everything "the right way" now. This is on the fans now, and there are plenty of affordable seats. At least 2 of their next 3 home games will be sell-outs (if not all 3).
N.O. City Council has put the hammer down and a TV deal will be in place so the areas surrounding NO will finally be able to watch the Hornets on TV, which will obviously give attendance a boost.
Please don't say they're "doomed" if you have little-to-no knowledge of how things have been going down since their return.
Do you want to make a
bold prediction that they avg more than 15,000 ppl for the rest of the year?
Hey... lets call a spade a spade... Shinn is first and foremost a business man. He could care less about the fans given his history of with the Hornets. He wanted to move the team and file for relocation to OKC but Seattle beat them to it. He is just trying not lose more money and make a buck
Link
Code: Select all
SEASON
GAME ATTENDANCE TOTAL AVERAGE
1 15,188 15,188 15,188
2 9,817 25,005 12,503
3 15,297 40,302 13,434
4 8,302 48,604 12,151
5 11,741 60,345 12,069
6 11,609 71,954 11,992
7 8,393 80,347 11,478
8 12,223 92,570 11,571
9 10,312 102,882 11,431
10 10,386 113,268 11,327
11 10,773 124,041 11,276
12 13,705 137,746 11,479
13 11,257 149,003 11,462
14 17,623 166,626 11,902
15 11,444 178,070 11,871Only three* times they had over 15K attendance and once was their home opener.
Try and rationalize the situation from unbiased eyes.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:36 pm
by 2poor
I'm not being biased, I just have a full understanding of all the factors holding the team back. Factors I figure few people on this site besides me are aware of.
That said, if the team can't average 14,700, then they probably don't need the team. But that being said, if they can't do that and Shinn wants to opt-out, he's not going to have the $100+ million to fork over to do so. The franchise itself is only worth $250M, 25% of which is owned by a local investor.
It isn't easy to attract new fans when new fans aren't able to watch the Hornets on TV. This will change within the next 3 weeks.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:49 pm
by greenbeans
2poor wrote:That said, if the team can't average 14,700, then they probably don't need the team. But that being said, if they can't do that and Shinn wants to opt-out, he's not going to have the $100+ million to fork over to do so. The franchise itself is only worth $250M, 25% of which is owned by a local investor.
you realize that if they cant avg the 15k then there will be NO opt-out fee, and hell be free to do as he pleases after 09??
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:52 pm
by Patterns
They'll probably get 15,000 with Kobe in town tonight.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:53 pm
by 2poor
greenbeans wrote:you realize that if they cant avg the 15k then there will be NO opt-out fee, and hell be free to do as he pleases after 09??
uh, no. They will only be able to opt-out IF the benchmarks aren't met. At which point, there would be severe financial penalties.
NOLA.com wrote:The new deal includes an option for the team to terminate the lease after the 2008-09 season if certain attendance benchmarks are not met. The Hornets can opt out of the agreement if the team fails to draw an average attendance of 14,735 for the final five months of this season and next season.
Opting out, though, would be costly for the Hornets. Owner George Shinn would would be on the line for up to $100 million.
Roughly $30 million of that would be penalties, reimbursements of past inducements from the state and relocation fees to move.
Shinn said one of the terms to the deal he struck with minority partner Gary Chouest, a Galliano businessman, when Chouest agreed to buy 25 percent interest in the team last July was that Shinn would be forced to pay back Chouest's investment, an estimated $62 million, if the Hornets moved.
It is really quite simple, sink, swim, or sell, and Shinn has never been to keen on the idea of selling. Hell, getting him to surrender 25% of the team to Chouest was pretty surprising in itself.
btw, the attendance figure is their average attendance number from before Katrina, so what they're asking for really isn't outrageous. They're simply asking for the same level of support they had before they left.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:55 pm
by Blame Rasho
greenbeans wrote:you realize that if they cant avg the 15k then there will be NO opt-out fee, and hell be free to do as he pleases after 09??
It also allows the Hornets to opt out after next season, albeit with penalties ranging from $50 million to $100 million. The precise cost would depend on inducement reimbursements by the team to the state and a relocation fee imposed by the NBA.
The lease says the Hornets may leave only if average attendance is worse than 14,735 for the final five months of this season and next season. The benchmark is close to the team's average attendance for the three seasons before Hurricane Katrina. Such an average still would leave the Hornets in the bottom third of NBA attendance, league officials said.
It isn't as easy as packing and leaving. They need to file for relocation and get thru all the red tape with another city before even considering leaving NO. It is in Shinn's best interest to stay in New Orleans and hope that the fans pick up attendance. He doesn't want the Hornets to be a sunk cost...
Oh and the only city that has an NBA ready Arena is OKC but the Sonics beat them to that bid.
Las Vegas isn't going to get a team, they don't have a NBA level arena. The Thomas and Mac Center is a freaking college basketball team arena and boxing venue.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 9:58 pm
by 2poor
Like I said, this is really a matter of being rational;
the team's estimated worth is $250M. this value will increase or decrease based on how successful they are (attendance). if they are so unsucessful that the opt-out clause is triggered, do you really think Shinn is going to have the $100M to piss away? Probably not, he'd have to sell, which he has never wanted to do.
This is a win-win deal for both sides, now they just need to keep drawing in the fans. Expect at least 2 sell-outs, possibly 3, over this next homestand (LA/CLE/MIA).
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:00 pm
by greenbeans
they should move back to CHA, sign Mugsey as the HC, and bring ZO and LJ off the bench. maybe THEN ill start giving a damn about that franchise again. (just sick of that owner, make up yo mind, FOOOOOL)
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:02 pm
by Carl_Monday
I'd really hate to see the Hornets leave New Orleans, and hopefully the fans do start to come around like you say 2poor, but the past attendance figures in New Orleans don't look so good.
Year Avg. Att. % Capacity NBA Rank W/L Record
2002-03 15,650 91.0 19/29 47-35
2003-04 14,332 83.3 28/29 41-41
2004-05 14,221 82.7 30/30 18-64
2005-06 18,168 N/A 11/30 38-44
2006-07 17,830 N/A 15/30 39-43
2007-08 11,871 69.0 30/30 ??-??
Note that the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons had 37 and 35 games played in Oklahoma, which lead to a huge bump in attendance. Again, I really do hope that the fans down there realize what a great team they have and a special player in CP3 that they can watch on a nightly basis, instead of only coming out for the Kobes and LeBrons.
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:03 pm
by hermes
man from looking at the figures its going to be tough to avgergae 15000
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:04 pm
by Blame Rasho
I really do hope that the fans down there realize what a great team they have and a special player in CP3 that they can watch on a nightly basis, instead of only coming out for the Kobes and LeBrons.
I share this opinion...
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2008 10:07 pm
by LLcoleJ
2poor wrote:Like I said, this is really a matter of being rational;
the team's estimated worth is $250M. this value will increase or decrease based on how successful they are (attendance). if they are so unsucessful that the opt-out clause is triggered, do you really think Shinn is going to have the $100M to piss away? Probably not, he'd have to sell, which he has never wanted to do.
This is a win-win deal for both sides, now they just need to keep drawing in the fans. Expect at least 2 sell-outs, possibly 3, over this next homestand (LA/CLE/MIA).
couldnt he subsidize the penalites he could face by getting that covered by a new city/ investor that wants the Hornets in their city?
This is general terms and not a specific city I am talking about.