RealGM

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:26 am**

Sure he has 1000w/700l record, but why does that matter if you don't have championship?

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:35 am**

Think of all the NBA franchises that haven't won a title in the past 20 years. Why not fire all of them collectively? You can't hang everything on one man and besides, for one man, Sloan has done a ton for them. He's as respected as he is for a reason.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:41 am**

While a championship has eluded him, he has kept the Jazz consistently in the upper half of the NBA. 16 playoff appearances in 19 years, 2 NBA Finals, and even just recently a trip to the Western Conference Finals.

It takes a lot of luck to make a run all the way to a title. Maybe one day he'll get one, but he's definitely one of the best coaches in the game today regardless.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:47 am**

He's been consistantly good. That's a hell of a lot better than most coaches.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:57 am**

I would choose Sloan over Dantoni anyday

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:07 am**

In terms of accurately representing personal ability, rings are the most overrated "indicator" in basketball.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:12 am**

Egg Nog wrote:In terms of accurately representing personal ability, rings are the most overrated "indicator" in basketball.

OK Karl Malone

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:57 am**

Suns_Fever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

OK Karl Malone

I don't think his statement was far off. Championships serve better as a measure for teams than individual skill. I mean like you mentioned Malone has none, but he's arguably a top 15 player of all time. Chamberlain only had 2 titles, while Duncan has 4, and counting. What does this do for Duncan's argument? If you think it's unfair to compare the two because they played in different eras, well how about Russell or Kareem? Are they so much better than Wilt since they have so many more titles? Meh, I'd say they simply have had better teams, whether by talent or chemistry.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:07 am**

Suns_Fever wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

OK Karl Malone

Would winning 2 more games in '98 have drastically altered what calibre of a player Karl Malone was?

Would Hakeem have personally played worse basketball if Jordan had stayed in the league in '94 and '95?

The answer is no. Rings are the result of great team basketball, but cannot be adequately relied upon to judge the performance of individual players.

A ring is neither a necessary or a sufficient condition for playing great basketball.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:12 am**

Egg Nog wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Would winning 2 more games in '98 have drastically altered what calibre of a player Karl Malone was?

Yes. He had 2 shots at it, couldn't win. And made the turnover that cost them the series deciding game. Turning that around and winning that game would change things. Now he's in a very exclusive club - retired MVPs who couldn't win a ring. The club founded by Charles Barkley.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:19 am**

From a business perspective I cant see why you would. The Jazz remain good and fill the seats and there is little turnover.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:23 am**

The longer you work the less likely you get fired. Unless he gets in trouble with the law or decides to retire he won't be gone for a while.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:41 am**

A new broom sweeps clean, but the old brush knows all the corners.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:44 am**

Blame Jordan.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:14 am**

i think he'll retire before ever being fired. you don't fire someone like that. utah is still a very good team. they chose the wrong time to not get of that horrible slump last month but i can see them making the playoffs at another teams expense.

he's still one of the best coaches ever. hall of famer. i hope he's chosen for the hall of fame soon. don't wait till he's too old that he can barely talk.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:40 am**

utah will never fire jerry sloan. coach sloan is jesus christ around utah country.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:24 pm**

Egg Nog wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Would winning 2 more games in '98 have drastically altered what calibre of a player Karl Malone was?

Would Hakeem have personally played worse basketball if Jordan had stayed in the league in '94 and '95?

The answer is no. Rings are the result of great team basketball, but cannot be adequately relied upon to judge the performance of individual players.

A ring is neither a necessary or a sufficient condition for playing great basketball.

Look, this a list of NBA MVPs:

2006-07 - Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas
2005-06 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2004-05 - Steve Nash, Phoenix
2003-04 - Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2000-01 - Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
1999-00 - Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles Lakers
1998-99 - Karl Malone, Utah
1997-98 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1996-97 - Karl Malone, Utah
1995-96 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1994-95 - David Robinson, San Antonio
1993-94 - Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
1992-93 - Charles Barkley, Phoenix
1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1987-88 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1986-87 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston
1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston
1980-81 - Julius Erving, Philadelphia
1979-80 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1978-79 - Moses Malone, Houston
1977-78 - Bill Walton, Portland
1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1974-75 - Bob McAdoo, Buffalo
1973-74 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1972-73 - Dave Cowens, Boston
1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1969-70 - Willis Reed, New York
1968-69 - Wes Unseld, Baltimore
1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1964-65 - Bill Russell, Boston
1963-64 - Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati
1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston
1959-60 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1958-59 - Bob Pettit, St. Louis
1957-58 - Bill Russell, Boston
1956-57 - Bob Cousy, Boston
1955-56 - Bob Pettit, St. Louis

I bolded the names of players, that doesn't have the rings.
KG, Nash, Dirk and AI are still playing, so they still have the chance of winning one.
But there are only two retired players that didn't won a championship during their career: Malone and Barkley.
Concindentally, they were both considered "chokers", Barkley - for not playing any D and Malone - for missing cruical fts and turning the ball over in game 7th against the Bulls.
So even as a ring is not the only or sufficient condition to judge a player, to be truly considered as one of the greatest, you need at least one.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:23 pm**

no
sloan has been a great coach for a while now
has kept the jazz near the top of the nba for a long time
and if it wasn't for MJ we wouldn't be having this conversation

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:34 pm**

Sloan is a top 5 coach. You don't fire coaches that are that good. He consistently keeps the Jazz in contention year and year with whatever he has at his disposal.

Posted: **Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:56 pm**

Sloan has spent years proving people (including me) wrong.

I was a fool for ever betting against Sloan. The man can coach.

RealGM

Shouldn't Jerry Sloan be fired after 20 years with no rings?

Shouldn't Jerry Sloan be fired after 20 years with no rings?