The Great Debate...
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:15 pm
I just finishing reading a post on whether Kobe or Lebron is the best player, and of course many people suggested Tim Duncan is the best. I believe these are three different players who came into the league in three different situations.
Tim Duncan was drafted on a winning team that happen to get the 1st rd pick due to David Robinson being injured the year before and the team winning the lottery. He went through the mentoring process and since he was so fundamental I believe it was the best for him. Transitioning from Robinson's team to Timmy's team was easy since they play similar positions. Robinson moving out the spotlight and being the professional that he is was and the motivator and mastermind Popovich is ensured Tim's success. Tim always hovered around 50% from the field, never less than 2 blocks per game(not counting this year), Always ranged from 3 to under 4 assists a game(good passing big man), and he is getting more efficient doing it all around 35min a game down from right under 40. Only knock Tim has had is not being entertaining enough, but also could he have done it with a team on his back with no help?
Kobe is the golden boy. He entertains and was brought in to be the counterpart for the Daddy. Never averaged 20 or more til 3rd season(19.9). Never averaged over 5 assists til 4th year.Wasnt efficient from the 3 until his 7th year('02-03). The stretch from 98-99 to 01-02 was real bad from 3 but 46%(his highest) from the field which means he was more efficient from inside because less 3s but more high quality shots. Only 3 times he averaged 6+ rebs. From '00 to '01 he has averaged 25+ pts except 1(the breakup year).
His last 3 years has been his best as a player 45+% from the field(last year 46.3); 30+ppg except this year(27.9) but better team record; +5 rebounds(6+ this year); +5 apg(-5 only once);And 1.8, 1.4, and 1.9 stl the last 3 seasons.
The knock on Kobe's game was he wasnt a team player but this year he is great. It took him 3 seasons because the team wasnt his in the beginning so I think he could have possibly been a better player if he had a team thrust on his back.
So now we have Lebron who came in as a gifted player and athlete. In 5 years we are already debating if he is best in the league. He has taken a laughable team who has been nothing since Jordan beat them over 15 years ago, back to playoff contention and noteworthy. Lebron has averaged over 40min a game since his sophmore year. 47+% from the field every year except his freshman season(41.7%). His knock which has been his free throws has gone down and hovers around 70%. 3pt% was 35 and 33 in season #2 and 3 but is around 30% right now. He has always been ~7 reb except rookie season(5.5). 3 seasons ~6 apg and 2 with 7apg. He has had two 2 stl per game season and is currently avg 1 blk a game. +27 ppg except his 1st season(20.9).
So his knock has always been his free throws and they are not getting better. His leadership is off the walls and his team play is up there. His FG% is higher than Kobe but thats due to Lebron's game being going to the hole and Kobe's a better jump shooter. Lebron has already averaged 2 stl per game for a season while Kobe has yet to have a 2stl season; but Kobe is better at man defense while Lebron plays passing lanes and has become a great help defender and his man defense is coming along but Kobe I believe is the better defender. Last year he wasnt clutch enough but this year he is averaging 10+ points per 4th quarter.
So now that we have the two in contention we have to put them up against the best so how did MJ do?
+27ppg every season except 3 (the chicago injury season only 18 games
and the 2 was wiz seasons)
+30ppg 8 seasons
2-3 stl per game every season til 1st retirement
6+ reb except season 2,3,4 then 12,13,14-1st wiz season
but in season 2,3,4 avg 1 blk a game
5+ apg except 2 ,3 then 11,12,13, and 15 - last wiz season
50% from field every season except 2 and 9-15 and only less than 46% in Was
so not counting season 2 or his Wizard seasons which were still very productive he was more than efficient but what was Jordan's knock...
3pt less than 20%(yes less than 20%) 1st 4 seasons and 1st with Was
20-30% 4 seasons (5 , 8, last with chi, last with Was)
30 - 35% 1 season
35+ 6th,9th,10th,11th,12th
So knowing that not many people wont even get down here. MJ was great because he was a one man wrecking ball and efficient as a post player while playing guard. More efficient than anyone above while Kobe being a better shooter and Lebron being a better passer and Tim being a better fundamentally as well as rebounder and blocker(as expected from a big man). Kobe's whole body of work wont be able to amount to MJ due to being a sidekick too long and not winning enough championships. Tim wasnt entertaining enough to be compared to MJ, or even the Diesal for that matter. Tim will go down as Bill Russell while Shaq will be Wilt. Lebron on the other hand is most comparable because he took a team on his back to the playoffs like MJ but he got to the finals, his stats are high and being the age he was and age limits now he could possibly break the scoring records with no one capable of matching him. But if championships dont come he can be KG,Pat Ewing, or Barkley but never Jordan.
So yes Tim is great and possibly could be the most efficient but I think Kobe has the nod on Lebron based on experience. Lebron by next season if not by season's end will be the best player in the league. And at age 23 if he keeps playing and growing like this he'll be the best for a very long time.
Tim Duncan was drafted on a winning team that happen to get the 1st rd pick due to David Robinson being injured the year before and the team winning the lottery. He went through the mentoring process and since he was so fundamental I believe it was the best for him. Transitioning from Robinson's team to Timmy's team was easy since they play similar positions. Robinson moving out the spotlight and being the professional that he is was and the motivator and mastermind Popovich is ensured Tim's success. Tim always hovered around 50% from the field, never less than 2 blocks per game(not counting this year), Always ranged from 3 to under 4 assists a game(good passing big man), and he is getting more efficient doing it all around 35min a game down from right under 40. Only knock Tim has had is not being entertaining enough, but also could he have done it with a team on his back with no help?
Kobe is the golden boy. He entertains and was brought in to be the counterpart for the Daddy. Never averaged 20 or more til 3rd season(19.9). Never averaged over 5 assists til 4th year.Wasnt efficient from the 3 until his 7th year('02-03). The stretch from 98-99 to 01-02 was real bad from 3 but 46%(his highest) from the field which means he was more efficient from inside because less 3s but more high quality shots. Only 3 times he averaged 6+ rebs. From '00 to '01 he has averaged 25+ pts except 1(the breakup year).
His last 3 years has been his best as a player 45+% from the field(last year 46.3); 30+ppg except this year(27.9) but better team record; +5 rebounds(6+ this year); +5 apg(-5 only once);And 1.8, 1.4, and 1.9 stl the last 3 seasons.
The knock on Kobe's game was he wasnt a team player but this year he is great. It took him 3 seasons because the team wasnt his in the beginning so I think he could have possibly been a better player if he had a team thrust on his back.
So now we have Lebron who came in as a gifted player and athlete. In 5 years we are already debating if he is best in the league. He has taken a laughable team who has been nothing since Jordan beat them over 15 years ago, back to playoff contention and noteworthy. Lebron has averaged over 40min a game since his sophmore year. 47+% from the field every year except his freshman season(41.7%). His knock which has been his free throws has gone down and hovers around 70%. 3pt% was 35 and 33 in season #2 and 3 but is around 30% right now. He has always been ~7 reb except rookie season(5.5). 3 seasons ~6 apg and 2 with 7apg. He has had two 2 stl per game season and is currently avg 1 blk a game. +27 ppg except his 1st season(20.9).
So his knock has always been his free throws and they are not getting better. His leadership is off the walls and his team play is up there. His FG% is higher than Kobe but thats due to Lebron's game being going to the hole and Kobe's a better jump shooter. Lebron has already averaged 2 stl per game for a season while Kobe has yet to have a 2stl season; but Kobe is better at man defense while Lebron plays passing lanes and has become a great help defender and his man defense is coming along but Kobe I believe is the better defender. Last year he wasnt clutch enough but this year he is averaging 10+ points per 4th quarter.
So now that we have the two in contention we have to put them up against the best so how did MJ do?
+27ppg every season except 3 (the chicago injury season only 18 games
and the 2 was wiz seasons)
+30ppg 8 seasons
2-3 stl per game every season til 1st retirement
6+ reb except season 2,3,4 then 12,13,14-1st wiz season
but in season 2,3,4 avg 1 blk a game
5+ apg except 2 ,3 then 11,12,13, and 15 - last wiz season
50% from field every season except 2 and 9-15 and only less than 46% in Was
so not counting season 2 or his Wizard seasons which were still very productive he was more than efficient but what was Jordan's knock...
3pt less than 20%(yes less than 20%) 1st 4 seasons and 1st with Was
20-30% 4 seasons (5 , 8, last with chi, last with Was)
30 - 35% 1 season
35+ 6th,9th,10th,11th,12th
So knowing that not many people wont even get down here. MJ was great because he was a one man wrecking ball and efficient as a post player while playing guard. More efficient than anyone above while Kobe being a better shooter and Lebron being a better passer and Tim being a better fundamentally as well as rebounder and blocker(as expected from a big man). Kobe's whole body of work wont be able to amount to MJ due to being a sidekick too long and not winning enough championships. Tim wasnt entertaining enough to be compared to MJ, or even the Diesal for that matter. Tim will go down as Bill Russell while Shaq will be Wilt. Lebron on the other hand is most comparable because he took a team on his back to the playoffs like MJ but he got to the finals, his stats are high and being the age he was and age limits now he could possibly break the scoring records with no one capable of matching him. But if championships dont come he can be KG,Pat Ewing, or Barkley but never Jordan.
So yes Tim is great and possibly could be the most efficient but I think Kobe has the nod on Lebron based on experience. Lebron by next season if not by season's end will be the best player in the league. And at age 23 if he keeps playing and growing like this he'll be the best for a very long time.
