I have read some analysis about how Phoenix is still going to be able to run and Shaq is going to start the break and all this stuff. But at some level isn't Phoenix trading for the biggest, once most dominant, slow big man in the league, kind of admitting defeat for their Run and Gun revolution that was supposed to have been the future of the NBA?
They have tried 'their way' the last few years and come up short against the old school half court dominant big in Duncan. Have they learned the error of their ways and are trying to combat fire with fire, especially with Pau coming over to L.A. and the emergence of Bynum? Is it still and always has been and will be, a league about the big man?
And what does this move signal to the PHX style follower teams like Golden State or Toronto? Are teams looking to follow Phoenix's previous success following a road to nowhere?
Is Shaq to PHX the defeat of Run N Gun?
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Is Shaq to PHX the defeat of Run N Gun?
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Rerisen
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Re: Is Shaq to PHX the defeat of Run N Gun?
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CaptainFanchini
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Re: Is Shaq to PHX the defeat of Run N Gun?
Rerisen wrote:I have read some analysis about how Phoenix is still going to be able to run and Shaq is going to start the break and all this stuff. But at some level isn't Phoenix trading for the biggest, once most dominant, slow big man in the league, kind of admitting defeat for their Run and Gun revolution that was supposed to have been the future of the NBA?
They have tried 'their way' the last few years and come up short against the old school half court dominant big in Duncan. Have they learned the error of their ways and are trying to combat fire with fire, especially with Pau coming over to L.A. and the emergence of Bynum? Is it still and always has been and will be, a league about the big man?
And what does this move signal to the PHX style follower teams like Golden State or Toronto? Are teams looking to follow Phoenix's previous success following a road to nowhere?
First I don't know how much D'Antoni is happy about this trade.
Second: after seeing "old-school" teams like Bulls, Heat, 76ers or Knicks struggling, I could be more happy to prefer modern basketball ala Toronto, GS or PHX.
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exkonvict
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greenbeans
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first, this run n gun is nothing new, did you not notice the Celts win 13 championships with this style?? if used properly you can succeed with it, its just you need an A+ defensive big(Camby, Chandler etc etc), NOT Amare playing C.
and this doesnt spell the end of the fastbreak teams, its just the evolution of it to todays game
and this doesnt spell the end of the fastbreak teams, its just the evolution of it to todays game
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Rerisen
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B-Scott wrote:Phoenix's run and gun style got them 0 Titles
In the playoffs you have to be able to execute in halfcourt sets
I agree. I believe people kidded themselves that the NBA was really changing its landscape. There was kind of a dead era of great bigs before Howard, Oden, Bynum, Al Jefferson and these young guys started coming in and for wont of great bigs around, teams did the best with what they had and were actually pretty successful in pushing the up tempo style ball. Until they ran into the real deal in the playoffs at least.
To some responses in this thread, I am not talking necessarily just about incorporating a big into a run and gun style, but also the supposed death of the big, or flat out not needing one any longer.
This whole idea that mobile 4's in the mold of Dirk, Amare or even the original KG, were going to become in importance to a offense what big slow post men once were, seemed always a very dubious premise.
I think Phoenix's move shows they know they have to be the ones that match up to other team's big men strength and not the other way around. The idea that the game is passing player's like Shaq by would be silly. It maybe be passing Shaq up and that remains to be seen,
, but his archtype will always be in high demand. Just look at the endless hope that is (was) piled on someone like Eddy Curry.-
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Man **** the people who say Run and Gun can't win games. You saw what the Warriors did to the Mavericks, you saw how the Jazz outrebounded us by like 30 boards a game but only won by about 4-8 points each game especially when we were just using an 8 man rotation with only 6 effective players.
I bet if you put KG on the Warriors they would prove that Run and Gun could win a championship. You would see something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_9c9vI6HjU
Except the difference would be KG in the game making it even harder for the opponents. KG and Biedrins contesting the shot, KG grabs the rebound and throws a long outlet pass to the Warriors running down court. Oh, you want a half court offense? BD will take it to any defender, KG will take it in the post on any defender, Monta will blow past you, a quick pass to Biedrins it's over. Just like the Showtime Lakers except without the HOFers. Point-Center ****! But the thing is that Shaq is old. As long as he can play defense, make shots inside, grab rebounds and throw good outlet passes the Suns should be fine.
I bet if you put KG on the Warriors they would prove that Run and Gun could win a championship. You would see something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_9c9vI6HjU
Except the difference would be KG in the game making it even harder for the opponents. KG and Biedrins contesting the shot, KG grabs the rebound and throws a long outlet pass to the Warriors running down court. Oh, you want a half court offense? BD will take it to any defender, KG will take it in the post on any defender, Monta will blow past you, a quick pass to Biedrins it's over. Just like the Showtime Lakers except without the HOFers. Point-Center ****! But the thing is that Shaq is old. As long as he can play defense, make shots inside, grab rebounds and throw good outlet passes the Suns should be fine.
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Rerisen
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I find classic half court style basketball every bit as interesting as the supposed ratings grabber run up and down chuck it style.
If Phoenix suddenly starts spending half the game with Shaq camped in the post kicking it out to shooters and passing it in and out, I'm going to laugh when guys like the Sports Guy Bill Simmons start writing columns crying about the loss of the once super exciting Suns.
If Phoenix suddenly starts spending half the game with Shaq camped in the post kicking it out to shooters and passing it in and out, I'm going to laugh when guys like the Sports Guy Bill Simmons start writing columns crying about the loss of the once super exciting Suns.
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seanbig
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CaptainFanchini
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seanbig wrote:phoenix run and gun style without a dominant defensive stopper or center got them how many finals appearances in the last 10 years?
0
How about all these old-style teams which can just dream to make the play off ?
Look the 76ers with thei 1-9 , 2-12 from 3 every game ...
What about the Knicks with "baby Shaq" Curry ?
I prefer to watch some nice basketball and win nothing than watch ugly basketball and win nothing ...
Or do you want to tell me that the pre-small ball Suns were better than the D'Antoni's ones ?
Every season just 1 team win the NBA title; so the other 29 teams are just **** ? even the conference finalists ?
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CaptainFanchini
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_venom_ wrote:To the OP, Toronto is NOT a run and gun team at all. They are 3rd last in pace, so they are a very slow tempo team. The fastest paced teams in the NBA are Denver (1), GState (t-2), Indiana (t-2), Phoenix (4), and LAL (5). However, I'd only say Denver, GState and Phoenix are true run and gun teams.
Toronto is a mix between half court and run&gun.
The Raps are more "gunners" than "runners", just checkt the 3s numbers.
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CupcakeNoFillin
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"Kareem contests the shot and grabs the rebound, sees his teammates running downcourt, throws a long outlet pass to Magic Johnson... OHHHHH!!! Magic with an incredible assist to Byron Scott!"
"Russell with the rebound! Looks downcourt, a long pass to Cousy... Cousy with the quick dish to Havlicek for an easy bucket!"
Who said a fun run and gun team can't win a championship? Just as long as you have the right big man and defender on the team, you're good.
"Russell with the rebound! Looks downcourt, a long pass to Cousy... Cousy with the quick dish to Havlicek for an easy bucket!"
Who said a fun run and gun team can't win a championship? Just as long as you have the right big man and defender on the team, you're good.