McHale on KG trade

[BillessuR6]

Did you hear the one about how Kevin McHale traded Kevin Garnett to the Celtics just because he liked Danny Ainge?

McHale did - and he

[Fairview4Life]

So, did LA, GS... really offered what came out after the trade or was that just made up?

I thought the story was that everyone offered packages last year but were told KG wasn't available. So it's possible that people were just saying "we offered this!", and referring to their previous offer.

[theGreatRC]

This is all I have to say about the trades offered for KG: (Credit to Netsforce for the site):

This season's top Centers statistically:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... s/08/6/eff

Last 10 games:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... /6/eff/6-1

At Home:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... /6/eff/2-1

One the Road:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... /6/eff/3-1

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Truth of the matter is, no team had an Al Jefferson to offer.

[GJense4181]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: in two years this trade will look entirely lopsided in Minnesota's favor.
Regardless of whether Boston wins a championship this season (or next), their window will inevitably close. Like Miami, when they acquired Shaq, Boston mortgaged their long-term future for a chance at recent championship.
When Boston's window closes, however, Al Jefferson will be somewhere between 25-27, and his statistics could very well be better than the 22 and 12 he is posting today. Kevin Garnett doesn't put up those numbers NOW. In a few short years any intangibles that that can be used to prove that Kevin Garnett is the superior to Al Jefferson will likely no longer make up for his declining statistics.

The fact that Minnesota got THREE, young starters for one (we're talking Ryan Gomes and Sebastian Telfair, here) AND the expiring contract of Theo Ratliff AND two future first-rounders AND had the opportunity to rent out Gerald Green, results in this trade being in favor of the Timberwolves.

[T.Duncan21]

This is probably directed towards CHI

[kandiking]

This is probably directed towards CHI

and GS and PHX, am i the only one who remembers the "biedrins>jefferson" guy?

[Liqourish]

What do you expect him to say? OF COURSE I HELPED OUT MY CELTICS!!

[NetsForce]

Um... Sebustian Telfail and Ryan Gomes aren't starters, well they shouldn't be starters...

[celticfan42487]

I think AL Jefferson and Gasol trade are silencing any critics of 11.5 million expiring or young all-stars

[Fairview4Life]

In a few short years any intangibles that that can be used to prove that Kevin Garnett is the superior to Al Jefferson will likely no longer make up for his declining statistics.

Defence is an intangible?

Miami also didn't mortgage their long term future by trading for Shaq. Wade/Marion/Haslem/Top 5 picked PG or C/block of wood looks like a fine future to me.

[celticfan42487]

-= original quote snipped =-



and GS and PHX, am i the only one who remembers the "biedrins>jefferson" guy?

Did you mean this?

ill do this list as of right now

1. Chris Bosh
2. Dwight Howard
3. Chris Kaman
4. Emeka Okafor
5. Andrew Bogut
6. Charlie Villanueva
7. Darko Milcic
8. Channing Frye
9. Andrew Bynum
10. Andrea Bargnani
11. Tyrus Thomas
12. Al Jefferson
13. Robert Swift
14. Joakim Noah
15. Greg Oden


kid hasnt even done anything in college yet, im not gonna rank him above anyone else.

Every team in the league would offer unprotected first for Biedrins, Jefferson is not worth lottery pick.

biedrins without even having to think about it too much. silly comparison.

Biedrins. better defender, shotblocker, rebounder, quicker and hustles more.

I'll give Jefferson the nod in low post scoring but Biedrins is a much better player.

Biedriens and its not even close. One of the bes young Defenders in the league. Al will be nothing more than a roll player in the league.

AS a play off team i think bonner would be much more help that jefferson, iam not sayin bonner is better or will be better, but iam positive he would help a ateam wina series more than jefferson
i have not seen one instance where he can create his own shot, while bonner cant either but he has in glimpses.

[theGreatRC]

^
Thank you for that Celticfan42.

That just made my morning and makes me look forward to the game on ESPN tonight.

People will see what a post player is, tonight.

[T.Duncan21]

Although Jefferson is a very good player... He still is not a franchise player IMO because he doesn't possess the ability to create offense for players around him. He's still a blackhole (a good one at that). But who knows... maybe he can develop that but I doubt it. Amazing low post scorer though.

[GJense4181]

Um... Sebustian Telfail and Ryan Gomes aren't starters, well they shouldn't be starters...

No?
Sebastian Telfair and Shaun Livingston were the first high-school-to-pros point guards, drafted in the first-round (lottery, actually) for a reason. Would either start on, say, the Spurs? Or any other contending team? Likely not. They'd be buried at the end of the bench due to differing team priorities. On a rebuilding and/or young squad, they do just fine. Telfair's statistics aren't outstanding but he could do worse, considering he's a 22 year old starting for the first time in his career. Gomes has caught on fire the past month as their starting PF (he's on my fantasy team so I've kept track).

[GJense4181]

-= original quote snipped =-



Defence is an intangible?

Miami also didn't mortgage their long term future by trading for Shaq. Wade/Marion/Haslem/Top 5 picked PG or C/block of wood looks like a fine future to me.

OH THEY DIDN'T?
SO IT'S COOL THAT THEY A BOTTOM-FEEDER IN THE NBA RIGHT NOW?
No. They traded young talent [Butler (all-star) and Odom (borderline all-star)] for a decrepit bigman that brought them ONE championship...that two years later they were forced to ship out.
=mortgaging the future=putting all your eggs in one basket=aiming exclusively for short-term success.

[Rooster]

I don't know how Riley pulled that Shaq/Marion deal and consider it an aberration. Yes, I think the Heat mortgaged their future with the Shaq trade.

The Garnett trade is different because he'll last longer. A 3-4 year window is a lot better than a 1-2 year window. Eventually, I think the trade will be seen as one that's beneficial for both teams.

[sule]

if you win a championship, then what you did to get there was worth it, even if it means mortgaging some of your future. the point isn't to be competitive, but not win, the point of playing for your team and trying to make the playoffs, is to win the championship. How many teams can say they've won a championship in today's league?

Miami is one of only 7 teams to win the championship in the past 25 years. That's something their franchise should be proud of, even if they did dismantle that team

[Fairview4Life]

OH THEY DIDN'T?
SO IT'S COOL THAT THEY A BOTTOM-FEEDER IN THE NBA RIGHT NOW?
No. They traded young talent [Butler (all-star) and Odom (borderline all-star)] for a decrepit bigman that brought them ONE championship...that two years later they were forced to ship out.
=mortgaging the future=putting all your eggs in one basket=aiming exclusively for short-term success.

Your caps lock key seems to be stuck.

Butler and Odom weren't going to win them a title. Shaq did. Now they will retool in the draft with a top 5 pick this year, to add to Wade, Marion, and Haslem. And they're back in the playoffs/on the hunt for more, and some cap space to add even more pieces.

Mortgaging your future is crippling a mid level or poor non title contender with high long term salaries that can't be moved. Like the Knicks. A plan that mortgages 3-4 years with no real hope of fixing the situation. The Heat still have Wade. Their future is not mortgaged. Now they have Marion, and a great defensive PF in Haslem. They will have a top 5 pick (as long as Wade takes a little beak in the 2nd half) to use on a guy like Rose, or one of the young athletic C prospects. Add that to athletes like Cook and Wright off the bench, and the future looks promising again. All after 2 years of title contention including 1 championship, one disappointing season in 06/07, and then one year of tanking for a pick.

How could that possibly be considered mortgaging the future? Hanging onto Butler and Odom and winning nothing is mortgaging the future.

[GJense4181]

if you win a championship, then what you did to get there was worth it, even if it means mortgaging some of your future. the point isn't to be competitive, but not win, the point of playing for your team and trying to make the playoffs, is to win the championship. How many teams can say they've won a championship in today's league?

Miami is one of only 7 teams to win the championship in the past 25 years. That's something their franchise should be proud of, even if they did dismantle that team

No.
If that were the case, teams would never try to develop youth. Or, at the very least, raw players would remain inactive, especially in the post-season. The draft would trend towards favoring college juniors and senior (instant contributors), and players like Gary Payton and PJ Brown would still be in the league.
The smartest-ran teams achieve a happy medium: perennial contender status. San Antonio, Phoenix, Detroit, Dallas, are examplary squads.
Most front offices acknowledge that the best regular season doesn't always win the championship. Last season Dallas was #1 with 67 wins, but 58 win San Antonio won the championship. The season before, 52 win Miami upstaged 64 win Detroit. Before THAT, San Antonio's 59 regular season wins proved superior to Phoenix's 62 wins (and Miami's 59, and Detroit's 54).
The moral of the story? The BEST a general manager can do is to assemble a team that is ALWAYS in the top 6, league-wide and hope for favorable matchups. and health. and consistent officiating. and no choke-jobs on their end or unknown explosions from the opposition.
That's how championships are won. There are several other factors that you cannot plan for, and even if you make the no-brainer trade that makes you the favorite, it may STILL not pan out.