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Three's Company, or Four?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:39 pm
by Real Deal
Note: combined stats are not projected stats, only using each player's average for the season

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It's been the same story every season: a certain team injects their roster with that third star player, the media jumps on the bandwagon and calls them contenders, and we are all reminded of the San Antonio Spurs' big three. It seems to be so common in the last few years, and quite frankly, it's blistering to my ears when rumors claim there's another danger being assembled in the Western Conference.

The biggest story of 2007 had to have occurred in the off-season, when the Boston Celtics reloaded with All-Stars Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. Along with Paul Pierce, the three were dubbed "The Boston Three Party" and "The Big Three" by the starving media and eager Celtics fans.

But what about four?

The last time we really witnessed a core of four stars on one team, it was the 2004 Los Angeles Lakers, adding veterans Karl Malone and Gary Payton to an already dominant duo of Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal. That particular Lakers squad was on pace to win 66 games before Malone's injury (starting 20-5), and right before the end of December, the injury bug started biting.

This year, there are four teams in the NBA who could fit that mold.

The Los Angeles Lakers, who, sometime in April, should have a frontline of three players who are or nearly are seven feet tall, will be one of the scariest teams gearing for a top four spot in the playoffs. Let's not ignore the facts: Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum are all capable of grabbing 10 rebounds on any given night, pairing 15-20 points with them.

We haven't seen a front three that massive and talented since Robert Parish, Kevin McHale and Larry Bird won championships for the Boston Celtics in the 80's.

With Kobe Bryant thrown into the pot, you can't help but think that the Lakers are just as mean as the 2004 Lakers. Anyone can make an argument that, without those injuries to Malone, Shaq and Kobe, Los Angeles would have an extra 60-win season under their belt, along with another championship.

Combined stats: 73.5 PPG, 35.0 RPG, 13.3 APG

Out in Arizona, another big four has developed before our eyes for the Phoenix Suns. Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Grant Hill and the newly-acquired Shaquille O'Neal may have all the tools for a run at the NBA championship. As many have pointed out, it's a hit or miss for the Suns, who took a gamble by placing one of the largest players in the fastest offense in the NBA, but what if they find success in the second half of the season? The "hit" I speak of will either be a grounder to first, or a grand slam, which is parallel to the difference between a pretender and a contender.

Combined stats: 69.6 PPG, 25.2 RPG, 17.5 APG

Another dangerous four, who have been pushed aside in the playoffs the last two seasons, are the Detroit Pistons. In 2004, you can make an argument for them, but today, Tayshaun Prince has become an amazing player on both ends of the court, and with the experience this team has together, they have a shot at the NBA Finals in a weaker Eastern Conference (yet we all know the road goes through the Celtics this year).

Like them or not, the Pistons are flexing their muscles with talent. Chauncey Billups gives Detroit very solid point guard play, with exceptional defense and clutch shooting. Richard Hamilton is possibly the best mid-range shooter in the NBA. Rasheed Wallace has very good range and defense. With the growth of Prince, the Pistons are "four on the floor" most of the time, due to their stellar training staff (or their great stroke of luck).

Combined stats: 61.4 PPG, 18.0 RPG, 16.2 APG

You can also make the case for the New Orleans Hornets, who are stacked with two current All-Stars, one of the best shooters in the league, and a defensive beast at center. Chris Paul, David West, Peja Stojakovic and Tyson Chandler have driven the Hornets into the top seed of the Western Conference, and these four could be a more lethal version of last season's Golden State Warriors. Teams have something to sweat about in New Orleans, and it's not just MVP candidate Chris Paul.

Combined stats: 68.7 PPG, 29.7 RPG, 15.4 APG

After two incredible, unexpected trades turned the Western Conference into the frightening, mean bully we all knew in grade school, Mark Cuban decided to build his four. The Dallas Mavericks brought back Jason Kidd to pair with Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard and Jason Terry, all with the ability to have 15-20 point games for the Mavericks. It's tough to believe the Mavericks will have the size up front to deal with the larger, more powerful frontcourts in the league, but if the right path is available to them in the playoffs, they could easily follow the yellow brick road into the conference finals.

Combined stats: 69.6 PPG, 26.8 RPG, 19.8 APG

Rumors are swirling about the Spurs or the Denver Nuggets stealing Ron Artest from the Sacramento Kings. If the disgruntled star is headed to Colorado, or packing his bags for the Alamo, you can add another team to the list.

In a sport where satisfaction was achieved by putting together the perfect duo, or even the most absurd trio of players, four's company is now knocking on our door.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:00 pm
by greenbeans
Lakers have 3 stars, as well as the Suns(cmon, Hill?!?!). the Hornets have ONE legit star, with 3 above-average role players and the Mavs have 2 stars. good in theory, but it aint the truth, sorry. and im skeptical to call Tayshaun Prince a star, but hes proved enough in his career to warrant it i guess

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:04 pm
by Kobay
TP is a killah the dude is good as hell, clutch, and very smart.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:05 pm
by Death Knight
Three's company............I thought it was a porn series. :rofl:

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:21 pm
by GLtrojans
greenbeans wrote:Lakers have 3 stars, as well as the Suns(cmon, Hill?!?!). the Hornets have ONE legit star, with 3 above-average role players and the Mavs have 2 stars. good in theory, but it aint the truth, sorry. and im skeptical to call Tayshaun Prince a star, but hes proved enough in his career to warrant it i guess


Agreed

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:29 pm
by Bucky O'Hare
greenbeans wrote:Lakers have 3 stars, as well as the Suns(cmon, Hill?!?!). the Hornets have ONE legit star, with 3 above-average role players and the Mavs have 2 stars. good in theory, but it aint the truth, sorry. and im skeptical to call Tayshaun Prince a star, but hes proved enough in his career to warrant it i guess


If career averages of 12 points, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists makes you a star, close to half of the league can make the claim.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:29 pm
by Real Deal
greenbeans wrote:Lakers have 3 stars, as well as the Suns(cmon, Hill?!?!). the Hornets have ONE legit star, with 3 above-average role players and the Mavs have 2 stars. good in theory, but it aint the truth, sorry. and im skeptical to call Tayshaun Prince a star, but hes proved enough in his career to warrant it i guess

There's a difference between a star and an all-star.

And you just called David West a role-player, when in fact he's an all-star forward. Peja is averaging 16 a game, and he's a star.

Dirk and Howard are two all-star players (Howard was one last year) and Kidd is an all-star guard. Terry is a star.

I think you are having trouble picking apart the stars from the all-stars, and semi-stars.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:43 pm
by greenbeans
Star, yes or no??

LA--
Kobe-Y
Odom-Y
Gasol-Y
Bynum-N

Pho--
Nash-Y
Shaq-Y
Amare-Y
Grant MFing Hill-N

DET--
Sheed-Y
Chauncey-Y
Rip-Y
Tayshaun-Y

Denver--
AI-Y
Melo-Y
Camby and Kmart- i really dont think of them as stars, but i guess they can be listed. YY

New Orleans--
Paul-Y
Peja-N
Chandler-N
West-N

Dallas--
Dirk-Y
Kidd-Y
Howard-N
Terry-N

just because somebody makes the all-star team once doesnt mean much, Wally Sczerbiak did, it aint that special

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:44 pm
by greenbeans
Bucky O'Hare wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



If career averages of 12 points, 5 rebounds, and 2 assists makes you a star, close to half of the league can make the claim.


is half the league a vital piece to a contender?? stats are irrelevent with Tay

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:27 pm
by Petey_UW
I agree with greenbeans. But regardless if how u define a "star", I think it the OP gave a good read.

I remember when LA got Karl and Gary with Kobe and Shaq, I almost pissed my pants, how could a team like that NOT win a chip? They lost to their own cockiness imo, ask the Patriots.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:28 pm
by greenbeans
Petey_UW wrote:They lost to their own cockiness imo, ask the Patriots.


no, lets noe. PLLLEEEAAASSSEEE lets not

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:30 pm
by Real Deal
greenbeans wrote:Star, yes or no??

LA--
Kobe-Y
Odom-Y
Gasol-Y
Bynum-N

Pho--
Nash-Y
Shaq-Y
Amare-Y
Grant MFing Hill-N

DET--
Sheed-Y
Chauncey-Y
Rip-Y
Tayshaun-Y

Denver--
AI-Y
Melo-Y
Camby and Kmart- i really dont think of them as stars, but i guess they can be listed. YY

New Orleans--
Paul-Y
Peja-N
Chandler-N
West-N

Dallas--
Dirk-Y
Kidd-Y
Howard-N
Terry-N

just because somebody makes the all-star team once doesnt mean much, Wally Sczerbiak did, it aint that special

You say that Kenyon Martin is a star, but not David West, or Tyson Chandler, or Andrew Bynum? :rofl:

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:35 pm
by greenbeans
i really dont think of them as stars, but i guess they can be listed.
he was a key piece to a team that made it to the finals, albeit a weak eastern conf team, but still. he is MUCH more known to non fans and casual fans than david West for sure, Tyson Chandler for sure and the only opne who MAY have more name recognition is Bynum.

people who make the all-star team once arent stars, they just had a good year or two. would you consider Wally Sczerbiak a star???

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:37 pm
by MagicFan3
greenbeans wrote:Star, yes or no??

LA--
Kobe-Y
Odom-Y
Gasol-Y
Bynum-N

Pho--
Nash-Y
Shaq-Y
Amare-Y
Grant MFing Hill-N

DET--
Sheed-Y
Chauncey-Y
Rip-Y
Tayshaun-Y

Denver--
AI-Y
Melo-Y
Camby and Kmart- i really dont think of them as stars, but i guess they can be listed. YY

New Orleans--
Paul-Y
Peja-N
Chandler-N
West-N

Dallas--
Dirk-Y
Kidd-Y
Howard-N
Terry-N

just because somebody makes the all-star team once doesnt mean much, Wally Sczerbiak did, it aint that special


wtf?

If Josh Howard, Jason Terry, David West, and Andrew Bynum are not stars, how the hell is Lamar Odom a star?!

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:51 pm
by Real Deal
greenbeans wrote:
i really dont think of them as stars, but i guess they can be listed.
he was a key piece to a team that made it to the finals, albeit a weak eastern conf team, but still. he is MUCH more known to non fans and casual fans than david West for sure, Tyson Chandler for sure and the only opne who MAY have more name recognition is Bynum.

people who make the all-star team once arent stars, they just had a good year or two. would you consider Wally Sczerbiak a star???

Wally isn't a star because he doesn't stand out in any specific category.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:53 pm
by greenbeans
wasnt he considered, at one point not TOO long ago, to be a Peja/Ray Allen type shooter? well the answer is yes, and he made the allstar game, so is he a star?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:57 pm
by Bucky O'Hare
greenbeans wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



is half the league a vital piece to a contender?? stats are irrelevent with Tay


Being a role player on a borderline top-5 team does not equate to being a star.

Bruce Bowen isn't a star. Neither is Raja Bell. Both are as important, if not more important to their superior teams as is overrated Tayshaun Prince to the Pistons.

You've been told by the media that Tayshaun Prince is a star, thus you believe it, just like you believe Greg Oden is a surefire Hall of Famer when he's yet to play a single game. That ability to see through the hype and find the truth is what separates the guru's, such as myself, from the average fans, which would be 90-95% of this board.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:03 am
by greenbeans
[quote="Bucky O'Hare"][/quote]

WOW, congratulations chief. i hope your proud. all hail the mighty guru of realgm. give me a break guy

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:38 am
by akula1488
lets break down the players to -
Franchise Players (FP) - cornerstone to build a franchise around
All Star Players (AS) - all star credential
Good Starters (GS) - all star potential, or not quite there yet
Rotational Players (Rot P) - in the typical 8 man rotation
Role Players (RP) - situational players with specific roles
and Bench Players (BP) - injury sub or garbage time killer

FP - 10 points, AS - 7 points, GS - 5 points, Rot - 3 points and Role players 1 points.

Lakers
Kobe - FP - 11 points, best player in the game
Gasol - AS
Odom - GS
Bynum - GS
total : 28

Detroit
Wallace - AS
Prince - GS
Hamilton - GS
Billups - AS
total: 24

Phoenix
Amare - FP
Nash - FP
Oneal - GS
Hill/Barbosa - RotP
total: 28

Dallas
Dirk - FP
Kidd - FP/AS, 8 points
Terry - GS
Howard - GS
toal: 28 points
NO
Paul - FP
David West - AS/GS borderline - 6 points
Peja - GS
Chandler - GS
total: 26 points

Utah
Boozer - AS
Deron - AS
AK47 - GS
Okur - GS
total: 24 points


of all these big 4s, Phoenix and Dallas seem to have the best talent level - Phonenix has two franchise players in Nash and Amare, with good support case of Shaq, Diaw, Barbosa and Hill.

Dallas has a franchise player in his prime, Dirk, another franchise player in his twighlight career and two very good starters in Terry and Howard.

For the rest I would rank this way in terms of the talent level of the big 4:
Lakers > NO > Detroit > Utah

So overall with the top 4 players considered:
Phoenix(28)= Dallas (28) > Lakers(28) > NO (26) > Detroit (24) > Utah (24)

Boston with their big 3 (27 points, KG 10, PP 10, and RA 7)
Spurs with their big 3 (24 points, TD 10, TP 7, and MG 7)
Denver with their big 3 (25 points, AI 10, Melo 10 and Camby 5)


just my two cents