Are the Cavs a better team now?

[BullSoxChicago'sFinest]

I kind of like it. Ben was out of place at C, he can fit comfortably into the PF spot now. Joe Smith is underrated too. Got to keep him healthy, he's not the 'down-low/post up' type that you don't find anymore, but he'll give you points, great guy chemistrywise too

Nice frontline, but the backcourt and Mike Brown do nothing for me.

[Entengtot]

it is becoming a good thing to re-invigorate a winner by trading him to a new situation. see-shaq. i think big ben and co will thrive in cleveland since lebron is consistent in scoring and being an offensive threat day in and out. and did mike brown handle big ben during his detroit days?

all in all good trade for cleveland. they do get shooters they need (gibson, wally, west, sczerbiak, pavlovic) and get some mental toughness inside with high IQ bball players in ben and joe smith.

i dunno what chicago is planning with gordon with the acquisition of larry hughes. but to unload ben they had to get larry's contract so i quite get it. i just dont see the direction of that team. still, with the current roster, they can squeeze into the playoffs, but having playoff success is a different story.

[Anticon]

One think people should keep in mind is the age of these guys: Smith is 33, Wallace is 33, and Wally will be 31 next month.

So these guys aren't going to keep this up for much longer. With Hughes and Gooden, you at least had guys who had 4 or 5 years left, if you chose to keep them. Smith and Wallace have about 2, and Wally has maybe 3 or so left.

But I still like this trade for Cleveland. It cleans up Ferry's mistakes from his first summer, and brings in 4 guys who provide a diverse number of skills. A bit more personality and experience as well.

The intangibles on this one are probably pretty deep; Hughes and Gooden aren't really guys you look to for guidance or strength in the playoffs. But I'd be confident in guys like Smith, Wallace, and Wally, along with Big Z and Lebron.

[BullSoxChicago'sFinest]

Like the Warriors/Pacers trade last year, people think these teams just traded crap for crap. But soon Chicago fans will realize how dumb Gooden is and how useless Hughes is. They downgraded in both positions, and both players will take minutes away from the youngsters. It's lose/lose.

I'm optimistic but I think me and many already realize this, really the only sad part for me is losing Joe Smith, but plenty of people just see getting Ben out as a win, and you had to take a hit to do it. Season's going no where anyways./

[Entengtot]

TRADE 4A: Seattle trades Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West and Mickael Gelabale to Cleveland for Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall, my illegitimate brother Cedric Simmons and a 2008 No. 2 pick.

from bill simmons trade machine...the idea was there.

[Schad]

I would expect them to be marginally better, largely on the strength of the additions of West and Smith. Wally is the inverse of Hughes in many ways, a very poor defender that is infinitely better on the offense end (Hughes' defense also looked to have slipped a bit).

Wallace, IMO, should be coming off the bench; he's now a below average defender and a shade above average as a rebounder (assuming that the Wallace we saw in Chicago is the same one that will arrive in Cleveland), and I would not want to have him defending against athletic forwards.

Overall, Cleveland gets deeper, which was much needed. Whether they improve by any great strides might come down to Mike Brown's ability to determine an effective rotation at PF/C. Should be an interesting team to watch in the playoffs, and one that could surprise should they make the second round.

[Uncooked]

Just because they beat Detroit last year in the playoffs does not make them better. Detroit has been doing it for years and are proven, while the Cavs showed they really overachieved a bit last year.

Please wise one, expand on this bit of knowledge. The Cavs almost beat Detroit two season ago but lost in seven (only a rebound away from winning), and won in six last season. So given that bit of evidence, what the hell are you talking about? Do you watch basketball, or do you live in some dimension where the team that loses is somehow without a doubt better?

[MrCheerios]

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I'm optimistic but I think me and many already realize this, really the only sad part for me is losing Joe Smith, but plenty of people just see getting Ben out as a win, and you had to take a hit to do it. Season's going no where anyways./

True, but now does Sefolosha get to keep his starting spot? He was developing quite nicely and Hughes getting 30+ minutes might just push him out of the rotation. Gordon, Hinrich, and Duhon are going to get their minutes too. And Thabo can't even get backup SF minutes with Deng back. The only youngster benefiting from this trade is Gray, and I'm not very optimistic about him.

And where is Tyrus going to play? Is he going to be a C now?

[wakkoman]

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Please wise one, expand on this bit of knowledge. The Cavs almost beat Detroit two season ago but lost in seven (only a rebound away from winning), and won in six last season. So given that bit of evidence, what the hell are you talking about? Do you watch basketball, or do you live in some dimension where the team that loses is somehow without a doubt better?

Yes I do watch basketball, and I am entitled to my own opinion just as you are entitled to yours. But only the Cavs fans are giving themselves the definite win over Detroit if they were to face them in the playoffs this season. I think that says something.

Lebron was UNREAL in that series, not the Cavs. Lebron can only do so much himself and it will take a great team or another superhuman performance by Lebron to beat them.

[That Nicka]

I think that they are really gonna struggle to put up points a lot of nights... Especially now that Boobie is out for 6 weeks....

As much as Wally's percentages are better than Hughes' (46% to 38%) its about the same difference between Gooden (45%) and Ben Wallace (37%)

I dunno... Wally has always seemed to disappear in the playoffs and Larry Hughes had just been starting to play well.... Seems like a lateral move to me, but the expiring contracts will probably get them something nice next year so we'll see

[Uncooked]

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But only the Cavs fans are giving themselves the definite win over Detroit if they were to face them this season. I think that says something.

See that didn't happen, which is why I have to believe you are out of your mind. I haven't seen a Cavs fan give the team a definite win at all, I only see you claiming that Detroit is far and away a better team. As soon as you are done being delusional, please argue some points people have actually made.

[wakkoman]

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See that didn't happen, which is why I have to believe you are out of your mind. I haven't seen a Cavs fan give the team a definite win at all, I only see you claiming that Detroit is far and away a better team. As soon as you are done being delusional, please argue some points people have actually made.

I need to go to sleep but I'll be back when you guys fail once again just to remind you. You think you are a great team because you have Lebron, when in reality, you have a mediocre team that overachieved terribly last year and really showed why you had no business being in the Finals.

[devwat12]

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I need to go to sleep but I'll be back when you guys fail once again just to remind you. You think you are a great team because you have Lebron, when in reality, you have a mediocre team that overachieved terribly last year and really showed why you had no business being in the Finals.

Give me a mediocre regular season team that overachieves in the playoffs every day over a great regular season team that underachieves in the playoffs.

[Cassius]

I'm actually quite surprised at how little people believe that the Cavs have improved.

My sig says it all. I've waffled in my support of this team and didn't even watch the Finals because the offense was so ugly.

You had Larry, who hates spotting up, stuck on the perimeter. You had Drew, who is only a good offensive rebounder off his own misses, holding his hands out. Z, the least mobile player on the team, running around in the midrange trying to get jumpers... and occasionally, Eric Snow.

Z/Joe
Ben/AV
LBJ/Devin Brown (so underrated)
Pav/Wally
West/Gibson

The biggest thing about this team is that everyone knows their role and is excited to do it. The shooters aren't going to try and create off the dribble, the PF's are going to set picks, roll to the basket and if the lob doesn't come, they're pulling down the miss. The Centers are going to camp out 8-15 from the basket and stroke jumpers then follow their miss, and Lebron is going to put his head down and bludgeon the middle of every defense he faces until his shooters miss shots.

[CBS7]

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True, but now does Sefolosha get to keep his starting spot? He was developing quite nicely and Hughes getting 30+ minutes might just push him out of the rotation. Gordon, Hinrich, and Duhon are going to get their minutes too. And Thabo can't even get backup SF minutes with Deng back. The only youngster benefiting from this trade is Gray, and I'm not very optimistic about him.

And where is Tyrus going to play? Is he going to be a C now?

Hughes isn't going to get close to 30 mpg. Or at least, he shouldn't. Who knows what Boylan will do. But I don't think he's dumb enough to give Hughes 30+ mpg when we have Gordon/Sefolosha on the roster. In fact I hope he doesn't get more then 15-20 mpg unless he starts playing very well.

Noah benefits hugely from this trade. He goes from backup (who sometimes doesn't play at all) to sure starter. Gray moves up from 3rd string to 2nd string. Tyrus doesn't have Smith in front of him and yes, he can spend some time at C. He still has Gooden as competition for minutest but I do think Boylan will make the new arrivals earn PT.

[CBS7]

I'm actually quite surprised at how little people believe that the Cavs have improved.

My sig says it all. I've waffled in my support of this team and didn't even watch the Finals because the offense was so ugly.

You had Larry, who hates spotting up, stuck on the perimeter. You had Drew, who is only a good offensive rebounder off his own misses, holding his hands out. Z, the least mobile player on the team, running around in the midrange trying to get jumpers... and occasionally, Eric Snow.

Z/Joe
Ben/AV
LBJ/Devin Brown (so underrated)
Pav/Wally
West/Gibson

The biggest thing about this team is that everyone knows their role and is excited to do it. The shooters aren't going to try and create off the dribble, the PF's are going to set picks, roll to the basket and if the lob doesn't come, they're pulling down the miss. The Centers are going to camp out 8-15 from the basket and stroke jumpers then follow their miss, and Lebron is going to put his head down and bludgeon the middle of every defense he faces until his shooters miss shots.

Joe Smith should start at PF. I don't think they are going to play Wallace too much at PF, he can't keep up with the more athletic ones anymore.

[CBS7]

I think that they are really gonna struggle to put up points a lot of nights... Especially now that Boobie is out for 6 weeks....

As much as Wally's percentages are better than Hughes' (46% to 38%) its about the same difference between Gooden (45%) and Ben Wallace (37%)

I dunno... Wally has always seemed to disappear in the playoffs and Larry Hughes had just been starting to play well.... Seems like a lateral move to me, but the expiring contracts will probably get them something nice next year so we'll see

The thing is Hughes is a scorer, Wallace isn't.

Smith keeps getting underrated in this trade. Wouldn't be surprised to see him put up 12-14 ppg and 6-7 rpg.

[heatwillbeback]

yes

Gibson, Snow
Pavlovic, West (shooter)
Lebron,, Szerbiak (shooter)
Wallace, Joe Smith
Z, AV

thats a good team. Some nice fits next to Bron imo.

[Cassius]

For the Bulls, they should have tried to sign Gooden when he was restricted.

His offensive skills have really gone stale since Marshall started eating his minutes. I think that, if given Randolph touches, he'd be a solid 18 and 9 guy.

Hughes... if he feels like it, could make the Gordon/Hinrich combo work to perfection. The three of them at 30m per would complement each other great.

[99 Problems]

Ugh, more reason to force feed us the Cavs on national tv....