RealGM

I found these stats interesting...

Cavs

Ilgauskas - 13.6ppg, 47fg% (both 7th worst of his 10yr career)

Varejao - 51fg% (3rd worst of 4yr career)

Pavlovic - 35fg% (worst of 4yr career)

Gooden - 44fg% (worst of 6yr career)

Devin Brown - 39fg% (tied for worst of 6yr career)

Hughes - 38fg% (worst of 10yr career)

The only player on the Cavs that is shooting a career high is Gibson.

Lakers

Sasha - 7.8ppg, 48fg%, 43%-3pt (all career highs)

Gasol - 21.9ppg, 65fg% (both career highs)

Fisher - 12.4ppg, 46fg%, 41%-3pt (all career highs)

Bynum - 13.1ppg, 64fg% (both career highs)

Farmar - 9.1ppg, 47fg%, 38%-3pt (all career highs)

Turiaf - 6.7ppg (career high)

Ariza - 52fg%, 33%-3pt (both career highs)

Odom - 49fg% (career high)

The only players on the Lakers that arent shooting career high percentages are Turiaf and Walton. Everyone else has career high numbers in the fg% category.

Now take that for what you will... But I find it real hard to believe that this doesnt prove Kobe making his teammates better > LeBRon making his teammates better.

The Lakers have 9 players shooting career highs.

The Cavs have 1 player shooting a career high. And its Gibsons 2nd yr.

The Cavs also have 5 players shooting career lows.

LABallaz08 wrote:I found these stats interesting...

Cavs

Ilgauskas - 13.6ppg, 47fg% (both 7th worst of his 10yr career)

Varejao - 51fg% (3rd worst of 4yr career)

Shouldn't it be 3rd best of 10 year career and 2nd best of 4 year career?

I love the way you skew stats to try to prove a point. When Kobe gets out of the first round w/o Shaq, give me a call.

This is like, the most biased thread ever.

Before you come back with the weak East comment.

The Detroit Pistons are a better team than Phoenix Suns.. (Last year and this year.)

aingaran wrote:I love the way you skew stats to try to prove a point. When Kobe gets out of the first round w/o Shaq, give me a call.

How is this bias?

I posted stats... Are stats biased now?

And what does getting out of the first round have to do with this thread?

Well I think its pretty safe to say that the Lakers' system and personnel are just better offensively right now. They all have players with a couple years experience in the Triangle.

But still, if Kobe doesn't have Phil, the Triangle and has Hughes, Ilgauskus, Gooden, Pavlovic, Devin Brown and company, I don't see how they would magically begin shooting career highs.

I understand that Flight... And thats a good point. But a lot of players on the Cavs this season are shooting career lows or close to career lows. So that either means they need a new system, or LeBron dominating the ball just isnt working.

Well we are gonna get some new elements in Wally and Delonte. I'm not sure I'm sold on the trade, but the Cavs are going to change the way they play to some extent.

As for our offensive system, our GM basically made Coach Mike Brown study offenses in Europe for about 2 weeks this offseason

It's better than last year tho...

I think that the problem with Lebron is that he doesn't give other players an opportunity to utilize their own skills. There is a reason he's putting up such impressive statistics, he's got the ball in his hands almost all the time. Even though he's getting the assists, he's not putting his teammates in a position to do what they do the best and he doesn't allow them to feel as intergrated in the game, so they don't play defense as hard as they would normally.

I like Kobe's approach a bit better (and Lebron will learn this as well because Kobe has been where Lebron is now). Kobe doesn't handle the ball so much. Even moreso pre-gasol, Kobe would allow fisher and his other starters to run the offense and figure out things themselves. There are many times during the game where there will be multiple possessions where Kobe doesn't even touch the ball.

Kobe also rests and plays fewer minutes. It makes the other guys get better because now they can't rely on their star player as a crutch. When everyone has a role and they feel like they are creating and contributing...rather than just waiting for Lebron to pass it...when the ball is constantly moving...then you see much more emphasis on defense and the team is better overall.


Kobe isn't making his teammates better, but he's being a better leader than Lebron this season.

Jules Winnfield wrote:I like Kobe's approach a bit better (and Lebron will learn this as well because Kobe has been where Lebron is now). Kobe doesn't handle the ball so much. Even moreso pre-gasol, Kobe would allow fisher and his other starters to run the offense and figure out things themselves. There are many times during the game where there will be multiple possessions where Kobe doesn't even touch the ball.

This actually happens a lot in Cleveland. Sadly, most times it doesn't work. We'll have guys like Hughes or Pavlovic or Devin Brown even Gooden try to create and ultimately force up a bad shot

aingaran wrote:I love the way you skew stats to try to prove a point. When Kobe gets out of the first round w/o Shaq, give me a call.

How did he skew stats? The stats are what they are. This is the same exact logic used to give Nash his MVP award. The FG% of his teammates were career highs.

Also, remember Kobe plays in the West. Those playoffs are much more difficult. This season, the Cavs wouldn't even make the playoffs in the West and the last time Lebron actually got a taste of western playoff competition, he got swept.

Lebron is an amazing player...arguably the best in the game, but don't use petty arguments to prop lebron up over Kobe. It just isn't persuasive.

I love the fact that people are ignoring that Kobe Bryant has the best supporting cast in the NBA when Bynum returns..while Lebron's supporting cast isn't bad, it's just about average..

both guys have been with their teams for numerous years..so why single out 1 year?..what about all of the complaints of Kobe hogging the ball the past few years?..

from the Cavs games I see..Big Z gets touches down low all of the time..he is the only capable guy on the team, so who else do people want to see get iso's? nobody else on that team can make plays..Larry Hughes had 2 huge games, so I don't see how Lebron doesn't give others the chance to shine..

No. Trade LeBron he sucks.

Im not saying LeBron sucks or isnt a team player or anything like that. But it seems like the majority of fans think LeBron is just an amazing team player and everyone around him becomes instantly better, I was just curious what people thought of those stats.

When you say 7th worst of his 10 year career, Do you mean that he's had only 3 better years? In other words Z is having his 4th best season? Same thing saying 3rd worst out of 4 years, does that mean 2nd best? You used very strange phrasing.

Rocky5000 wrote:When you say 7th worst of his 10 year career, Do you mean that he's had only 3 better years? In other words Z is having his 4th best season? Same thing saying 3rd worst out of 4 years, does that mean 2nd best? You used very strange phrasing.

This is what I meant by skewing the stats.

HarlemHeat37 wrote:I love the fact that people are ignoring that Kobe Bryant has the best supporting cast in the NBA when Bynum returns..while Lebron's supporting cast isn't bad, it's just about average..

both guys have been with their teams for numerous years..so why single out 1 year?..what about all of the complaints of Kobe hogging the ball the past few years?..

from the Cavs games I see..Big Z gets touches down low all of the time..he is the only capable guy on the team, so who else do people want to see get iso's? nobody else on that team can make plays..Larry Hughes had 2 huge games, so I don't see how Lebron doesn't give others the chance to shine..

In any event, in no way has Kobe had the best supporting cast this season. He's never played a game in which Bynum and Gasol were both on the floor together.

Kobe with Bynum + Odom are no where near the best in the league. The Spurs, Hornets, Celtics, Suns, Nuggets, etc all had better supporting casts around their star player...yet Bryant managed to get his team to #1 in the Western Conference.

Now with Gasol they are better, but not a slam dunk over most elite teams. Nonetheless, they go on the best 9 game road trip in NBA history.

While Bynum was out and Before Gasol came to the Lakers, Kobe led his team to roughly the same win percentage as the Cavs with Lebron.

Rocky5000 wrote:When you say 7th worst of his 10 year career, Do you mean that he's had only 3 better years? In other words Z is having his 4th best season? Same thing saying 3rd worst out of 4 years, does that mean 2nd best? You used very strange phrasing.

I dont understand how its confusing.

Out of Big Z's 10 year career... This is his 7th worst as far as fg%.

And this is Varejo's 3rd worst year in fg%

And how am I skewing stats? They are what they are.

I would say LBJ does. Or atleast he tries to. He really gets his shooter really good looks. And makes their jobs a lot easier. I really think Wally and Delonte are gonna have a field day from downtown. And Joe Smith won't even have to work for half of his buckets.