RealGM

LeBron, Ginobili, Bosh, and Baron Davis play extremely well during clutch time: 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points.

LeBron dominates Kobe during clutch time.

Per 48 minutes, LeBron averages:
more points
more rebounds
more assists
more blocks
more steals
less turnovers

There are many players who play better than Kobe during clutch time. Kobe is a turnover machine during clutch time. Of the 12 highest scorers during clutch time, Kobe has the lowest ft% during clutch time.

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Who do you think are the most clutch players?

Weak comparison. Different team-mates and team-layouts affect how much defense is on the star during crunch time. Last few years, they could double team kobe all through crunch time because his team-mates were so wack.

Bosh is NOT clutch. Hes spectacularly unclutch actually. I think it has to do with his offensive style. He operates from about the free throw line and beats you off the dribble. That works all game long but during crunch time when they swarming the paint, it makes it extremely hard to operate in bosh's mid-range. Wheras wing players have more room at the arc to use screens or get open off the dribble for a shot. And real post players catch the ball closer to the rim where its a matter of one or two feet. But Bosh cannot step back to the three line, and he doesn't really catch the ball deep in the post. His offensive style of beating you off the dribble from 15 feet off is easiest to smother during crunch time.

Personally I think Baron davis is one of the most clutch players. Arenas is pretty clutch too.

Strong Kobe hate.


like Storm said. Bosh is a good player, but not preticularly clutch. Not named with the likes of LBJ, Ginobili, or Baron anyways. Probably because he's a PF, and can't create like a gaurd.

Kobe, Lebron, Baron, Arenas, Ginobili, healthy Wade are all pretty clutch imo.

OMG I'm really getting sick of the endless discussion who's better...

do the whole RealGm community (aside from lakers and cavs homers) a favor and start a thread where you compare these two or if there's already one on the player comparisons board, use that one but don't flood the General Board with 5 new threads each day about that endless discussion

Kobe,Arenas, Melo, Billups

Lebron better have more of all those basic stats, his GM'ing skills have only allowed the Cavs to obtain players of the caliber of Larry Hughes and well now Ben Wallace... Kobe's GM skills on the other hand have allowed the Lakers to obtain Gasol. It's also interesting to note that thanks to Kobe's reverse pyschology Bynum has taken his game to another level. Players like Donyell Marshall and the aforementioned Hughes significantly regressed while playing with Lebronze.

GM Kobe > GM Lebron
Coach Kobe > Coach Lebron
Kobe the basketball player > Lebron the basketball player
Kobe in the clutch > Lebron in the clutch

Just live with it.

Also out of curiosity, why didn't you post field goal and three-point percentages in "the clutch"?

Does it have anything to do with the fact that Kobe's field goal and three-point percentages in "the clutch" are better than Lebron's?

the_incredible_basti wrote:OMG I'm really getting sick of the endless discussion who's better...

do the whole RealGm community (aside from lakers and cavs homers) a favor and start a thread where you compare these two or if there's already one on the player comparisons board, use that one but don't flood the General Board with 5 new threads each day about that endless discussion

Heck I'd be down for that and I'm a Lakers fan .

As far as the debate, Bryant is not clutch, even Mike James is more clutch than him. You heard it here first.

NetsForce wrote:Lebron better have more of all those basic stats, his GM'ing skills have only allowed the Cavs to obtain players of the caliber of Larry Hughes and well now Ben Wallace... Kobe's GM skills on the other hand have allowed the Lakers to obtain Gasol. It's also interesting to note that thanks to Kobe's reverse pyschology Bynum has taken his game to another level. Players like Donyell Marshall and the aforementioned Hughes significantly regressed while playing with Lebronze.

GM Kobe > GM Lebron
Coach Kobe > Coach Lebron
Kobe the basketball player > Lebron the basketball player
Kobe in the clutch > Lebron in the clutch

Just live with it.

Also out of curiosity, why didn't you post field goal and three-point percentages in "the clutch"?

Does it have anything to do with the fact that Kobe's field goal and three-point percentages in "the clutch" are better than Lebron's?

Are you being serious? Kobe the GM wanted Bynum gone in exchange for Jason Kidd. That deal would ahve had to include Kwame Brown so essentially it would be Gasol and Bynum for Kidd.

It was all part of Kobe's plan to get his teammates to work harder in the offseason and realize their potential. DUH. Common sense bro, common sense.

This is thread number 8325 that will devolve into a Kobe vs LeBron thread. As always NetsForce will captain the LeBronhate portion of the event.

Is it really Lebronhating if I'm telling the truth? Using those same "clutch stats" Kobe is shooting a better percentage from the field and from the three-point line, I just think it's unfair for those statistics not to be included in this analysis.

Lebron is definitely better than Kobe at some aspects of the game, but the first post in this thread is very misleading.

Quiet-Storm wrote:Weak comparison. Different team-mates and team-layouts affect how much defense is on the star during crunch time. Last few years, they could double team kobe all through crunch time because his team-mates were so wack.

Those stats are from this year only - a year when Kobe is surrounded by teammates who shoot better than he does.

The Lakers have played far more garbage minutes than the Cavs have. No one gave Kobe props when he led the league in 4th quarter points a couple years ago, so it doesn't matter if someone else leads. Whenever Kobe does something we just take it for granted, because nothing he does surprises us anymore.

garbage minutes don't get factored in those stats either.

Seriously, why is this turning into a Kobe vs. LeBron argument, when one of the two only played 78 minutes (compared to 157 from James) in clutch tme and judging by statistics is not even relevant to this discussion? You have so many other players to pick from, yet you chose the one who is in the middle of the list. I love how you even tried to make this an unbiased and objective debate, man. Especially the:"Of the 12 highest scorers during clutch time, Kobe has the lowest ft% during clutch time." part is great, considering the 13th on that list (who happens to be Baron Davis) shoots 69% and yet I though the number 12 was meaningless. Great job.

Anyway, this is another aspect of the game that LeBron significantly improved, kudos to him, he's been a monster in those tight games.

peace

lj4mvp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Those stats are from this year only - a year when Kobe is surrounded by teammates who shoot better than he does.

Since Lebron's teammates aren't as good as Kobe's, as you rightly pointed out, wouldn't that explain why lebron has more points (and etc) in the clutch? More possesions maybe?

Is this an "I hate Kobe" thread or a "Lebron vs Kobe 9430598403598" thread? Because it certainly isn't a "Clutch Stats" thread.

NetsForce wrote:Lebron better have more of all those basic stats, his GM'ing skills have only allowed the Cavs to obtain players of the caliber of Larry Hughes and well now Ben Wallace... Kobe's GM skills on the other hand have allowed the Lakers to obtain Gasol. It's also interesting to note that thanks to Kobe's reverse pyschology Bynum has taken his game to another level. Players like Donyell Marshall and the aforementioned Hughes significantly regressed while playing with Lebronze.

GM Kobe > GM Lebron
Coach Kobe > Coach Lebron
Kobe the basketball player > Lebron the basketball player
Kobe in the clutch > Lebron in the clutch

Just live with it.

Also out of curiosity, why didn't you post field goal and three-point percentages in "the clutch"?

Does it have anything to do with the fact that Kobe's field goal and three-point percentages in "the clutch" are better than Lebron's?

Wow. You're comparing Bynum with guys like DONYELL MARSHALL? You're saying that it's Kobe who organized the Pau trade and Lebron that organized the 3-team trade? You're forgetting that Kobe wanted Bynum GONE in exchange for a way past his prime Jason Kidd, and calling it "reverse psychology"?

Way to make the dumbest assumptions ever, and turn this into a Kobe vs. Lebron at the same time. Truly a great job!

One interesting thing about those stats is that Lebron is a big time defensive playmaker in the clutch. 3.4 steals/2.1 blk per 48 minutes of clutch time? Wow.

Hydroponic3385 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Wow. You're comparing Bynum with guys like DONYELL MARSHALL? You're saying that it's Kobe who organized the Pau trade and Lebron that organized the 3-team trade? You're forgetting that Kobe wanted Bynum GONE in exchange for a way past his prime Jason Kidd, and calling it "reverse psychology"?

Way to make the dumbest assumptions ever, and turn this into a Kobe vs. Lebron at the same time. Truly a great job!

haha lol NetsForce is a lebron hater yes but this thread is nothing else but sarcasm

Hydroponic3385 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wow. You're comparing Bynum with guys like DONYELL MARSHALL? You're saying that it's Kobe who organized the Pau trade and Lebron that organized the 3-team trade? You're forgetting that Kobe wanted Bynum GONE in exchange for a way past his prime Jason Kidd, and calling it "reverse psychology"?

Way to make the dumbest assumptions ever, and turn this into a Kobe vs. Lebron at the same time. Truly a great job!

As if the thread starter didn't already do that .