What are Ginobilli's Euro-league stats

[GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX]

With his skill set he must've been destroying the Euroleague in the early part of this decade. I've seen youtube vids of his Euro league days and he is basically the same player he was 7 years ago. Same wild style. Only difference is know he has more experience and is able to shoot a little bit further out.

Was Ginnobilli at least averaging 30+ in the Euroleague? I'm convinced if you stuck Kobe in the Euroleague today he'd average 50ppg for the season.

[Nuzzo]

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/p ... &pcode=AKX

[J-Mezzy]

As you can see, he wasn't really killing the league.
and Kobe wouldn't average 50 in that league by the way

[BillessuR6]

Was Ginnobilli at least averaging 30+ in the Euroleague? I'm convinced if you stuck Kobe in the Euroleague today he'd average 50ppg for the season.

In Europe basketball is played like a team sport...It is not player X against player Y it is team X against team Y! Players don`t average 30+ points in Euroleague...

Besides the games are also 8 minutes shorter...

[prekazi]

Euroleague basketball and Nba basketball are like black and white. You can't compare them especially in statwise.

[wilt]

Well, "not really killing" a league is relative since he wasn

[aristippus]

Well, "not really killing" a league is relative since he wasn

[Whateva]

Dominique Wilkins a player with 30ppg seasons and a career 25ppg , averaged 'just' 20.9ppg in the Euroleague in 1996.
The next season he returned to the NBA and he went for 18.2ppg.

[b-ball forever]

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Besides the games are also 8 minutes shorter...

Yeah, n the pace is also a zillion times slower

[Mr. Savage]

And there is way less ISO's but more ball movement and teamplay, so it is less likely to see a player take ridiculous amounts of shots.

[stevenger]

manu Ginobili was the best player of Euroleague when he comes to NBA

[CaptainFanchini]

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Yeah, n the pace is also a zillion times slower

Mmm, are you so sure of that ?

We have less isos, that's ok and clear ... but when you see many 40-minutes eurogames ending 98-84 , 89-85 , 101-91 etc and then you see a Spurs-Nets ending 70-81 or teams struggling to score more than 80-90 points after 48 minutes, you should have some doubts ...

And to me, team-basketball looks like a bit quicker than isos over isos.

[Lakers_4_Life]

I've had this particular argument with American fans before. Trying to base players on Euroleague stats thinking in terms of what stats mean in the NBA is completely useless.

Stats in the Euroleague have just about zero relation to the NBA.

A 15 points a game scorer could be the greatest offensive player in Europe, yet in the NBA be seen as a 3rd option. The problem is that same 15 point scorer might drop 20+ in the NBA but Americans would look at 15 a game in Euroleague and act like it means 5 points a game in NBA.

Kobe Bryant would not sniff 30 points a game in the Euroleague. The team structure and game planning makes it basically impossible. Manu averaging 30 would be a fantasy.

If you get 20 points a game in Euroleague you are a ball hog, your team is generally crappy or in disarray and your coach just lets players do whatever they want and on top of that you would be leading the league probably.


Let's put it this way Navarro led the Euroleague in scoring last year at 16.7 a game.

Individual stats are SEVERELY LOWER in the Euroleague that's just how it is.

I have seen so many times where American fans look at a guy getting 6 rebounds in Euroleague and laugh at his NBA prospects then he turns out to be a very solid rebounder in the NBA. Scola is a good example how I saw Rockets fans worrying about a 6 rebound a game guy in Euroleague being a horrible NBA rebounder..........they failed to realize it's damn hard to get 6 rebounds a game in Euroleague.


The funniest one is assists. You always see American fans looking at point guards for their assists to turnover numbers.............yeah well American fans don't seem to get that Steve Nash would average about 5 assists a game in Euroleague. If you can get like 5 to 6 assists in Euroleague you are a PASSING GOD.

The way they count assists is MUCH MUCH stricter than how it is counted in the NBA, but you never fail to see an American fan looking at some point guard's stats and sees 3 assists a game in Euroleague and then they laugh, not even realizing 3 assists in the Euroleague is probably AT LEAST 7 assists in the NBA maybe more like 9 even honestly.

All an American fan sees is 3 turnovers 3 assists and laugh at the point guard numbers.

[Lakers_4_Life]

Well, "not really killing" a league is relative since he wasn

[b-ball forever]

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Mmm, are you so sure of that ?

We have less isos, that's ok and clear ... but when you see many 40-minutes eurogames ending 98-84 , 89-85 , 101-91 etc and then you see a Spurs-Nets ending 70-81 or teams struggling to score more than 80-90 points after 48 minutes, you should have some doubts ...

And to me, team-basketball looks like a bit quicker than isos over isos.

Yeah, I'm absolutely positive that the pace of an average Euroball game is way slower then an average NBA game.

Euroleague players usually aren't as quick as NBA playas, n in Euroball games there are far fewer fast breaks and transition buckets.
Most Euro teams run half-court sets and try keepin the ball till the end of the shotclock more often then NBA teams do.

An average Euroleague team scores sth like 73 pts in 40 mins
(latest results) : http://www.euroleague.net/main/results

An average NBA team scores around 100 points in 48 mins
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_ ... able1.html

There are exceptions in Europe with teams like Joventud who play at an NBA-like pace, but usually Euroball is just a lot slower

[bynumsbreakout]

I think it's part of this American belief that the NBA is so superior they just assume that ANY Euro player that is good in the NBA must have been the Euroleague MVP, even if it's not true.

Nice generalization. I, as well as many other Americans respect European players and do not necessarily think that if a Euro player is good, he was automatically a MVP. Many of us projected Bargnani to be the number one pick and great NBA player (which he still could be), even though he didn't put up amazing stats in Europe.

[Lakers_4_Life]

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Yeah, I'm absolutely positive that the pace of an average Euroball game is way slower then an average NBA game.

Euroleague players usually aren't as quick as NBA playas, n in Euroball games there are far fewer fast breaks and transition buckets.
Most Euro teams run half-court sets and try keepin the ball till the end of the shotclock more often then NBA teams do.

An average Euroleague team scores sth like 73 pts in 40 mins
(latest results) : http://www.euroleague.net/main/results

An average NBA team scores around 100 points in 48 mins
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_ ... able1.html

There are exceptions in Europe with teams like Joventud who play at an NBA-like pace, but usually Euroball is just a lot slower

Yes indeed. And keep in mind the hige thing that Joventud is not even a Euroleague team. They score all those points but they play not in the Euroleague but in the ULEB Cup.

The ULEB Cup quality compared to the Euroleague quality could be described as the NBDL quality complared to the NBA quality. So even with a team scoring like that which is the exception they do it in an inferior second level league, that is nowehere near the Euroleague.

Now doing it in the Spanish league is a different story because the Spanish league is definitely better than the ULEB Cup, but as good as the Spanish league is you can not put it with the Euroleague. Spanish League is way faster paced. If Joventud played for example a team like Panathinaikos in Euroleague they would have to be able to grind it out.

I mean it's a big difference doing this in ULEB Cup, or even Spanish league as compared to Euroleague where some of the teams are right out of the Jeff Van Gundy school of pace.

[GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX]

sorry for being unable to distinguish a euroleaguer from a suproleaguer from a spanish player. You have too many damn relevant leagues. Maybe you guys need a merge.

I'm positive if America had 3-4 different relevant leagues a lot of Euros would also be confused as to what league an American player comes from. As it is, if you are a relevant American basketball player you play in the nba.

[Lakers_4_Life]

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Nice generalization. I, as well as many other Americans respect European players and do not necessarily think that if a Euro player is good, he was automatically a MVP. Many of us projected Bargnani to be the number one pick and great NBA player (which he still could be), even though he didn't put up amazing stats in Europe.

No not really. Because there are two types of European players generally in the NBA.

1. Dirk, Tony Parker, Bargs

That type is the type that is not a good player in Europe before coming to the NBA because they were just kids, it's like high school American players almost or in some cases NEVER even played in the Euroleague at all yet were called "Euroleague" players. This type is the player that was a bench scrub when drafted very young into the NBA based on potential so it's not for anyone to say they were the "Euroleague MVP".

If you come to the NBA at age 19 you were obviously not the Euroleague MVP. There is also a guy like Darko that no one would have called "Euroleague MVP".

2. Players from Euroleague that are older, and in many cases not even European.

Scola, Manu, Nocioni, Anthony Parker, Jasikevicius

In this instance it is absolutely customary for the announcers to always mention something like "dominated Euroleague" or "Euroleague MVP". In some cases it is true of being called "Euroleague MVP" like Jasekivicius or Anthony Parker because it actually is a fact, in others it is not like Nocioni, Scola, Manu because it's just made up.

But you will see that once it is said, for example Rockets fans were all calling Scola the 3 time Euroleague MVP awhile back because the announcers and sports writers kept stating it, even though he was never the Euroleague MVP.

So I'm not talking about a case like Bargnani where obviously no one would think he was the MVP coming to the NBA at such a young age, it's the established player that this happens over and over. Like I said, Manu is constantly called the Euroleague MVP and the year he supposedly won it he was playing in a DIFFERENT LEAGUE, not even playing in the league he supposedly was the MVP of.

[Lakers_4_Life]

sorry for being unable to distinguish a euroleaguer from a suproleaguer from a spanish player. You have too many damn relevant leagues. Maybe you guys need a merge.

I'm positive if America had 3-4 different relevant leagues a lot of Euros would also be confused as to what league an American player comes from. As it is, if you are a relevant American basketball player you play in the nba.

This is a big problem Americans have understanding how it works in Europe. The NBA is a DOMESTIC league. That is all it is. It is the NATIONAL league of the US and Canada.

OK........now try to follow this,

When someone talks about "Euroleague" they are talking about a CONTINENTAL or INTERNATIONAL league. It is not a national or domestic league like the NBA.

An example of a national or domestic league whatever you want to call it is the Spanish league, the Greek league, the Italian league etc. In these leagues the top teams from each country are allowed to compete in the Euroleague.

There are different ways the game is handled.

I'm from Greece so I can give a good example on how it is in Greece:

Top 3 teams in the Greek League every year get to compete in the Euroleague which is formated like a Round Robin type. The teams that finish 4th place and 5th place get to compete in the ULEB Cup a secondary level like say the NBDL to NBA.

6-10 place team gets to compete in the EuroCup a 3rd level competition.
There is also a 4th level one called EuroCup Challenge.

There is a difference between FIBA which sanctions some and ULEB which sanctions Euroleague and ULEB Cup. ULEB is like the NBA a club level sanctioning body. FIBA is the same FIBA you know from national team games.

Also we have relegation and promotion. In the Greek league you have 30 teams. 14 teams in division 1, and 16 in division 2. Division 2 teams are never allowed to play division 1 teams in the domestic championship.

The last two place teams in the top division are relegated to the 2 division and the top 2 place teams from the 2nd division are promoted to the first division. In Europe if you are the Miami Heat next year you will no longer be in the NBA. You will be sent DOWN to a lower league for poor performance. In order to get back you have to finish first or second the next year in the lower league.

Also there is a Cup Championship where all the pro teams can compete against each other regardless of division to try to win the Cup. Example in Greece the Greek Cup has I believe 46 teams compete and it's a single elimination format.

Now repeat this over all the countries and see that only the premiere national leagues even have spaces allowed for Euroleague. Like if you are in the UK league you can forget about the Euroleague. No chance. It's based on how strong the domestic league is.

So like Spain gets 5 teams in Euroleague and Greece 3 and Italy 4, probably just 3 from now on for Italy because the league is weaker these days so they lose a team as it adjusts on this. Other than that its very hard for the domestic leagues to even get Euroleague spots.

You can have a player on a 2nd level division domestic league in Finland and he often gets called a "Euroleague" player. It's basically like if in Europe everyone called NCAA players NBA players. But it's just the way it goes.

In America everyone is talking about Ricky Rubio and Rudy Fernandez the "Euroleague stars" but actually they play in ULEB Cup not Euroleague, which really is like saying a NBDL player plays in the NBA, the difference in the leagues is huge. It's hard to understand for Americans I know because it is done so different in Europe.

With Manu, Suproleague was run by FIBA not ULEB, ULEB runs Euroleague and ULEB Cup it's second level, FIBA runs things like the FIBA World Championship you know in Japan the last time Greece beat US and Spain beat Greece, and Suproleague contained about half of the big sports clubs in Europe. There were two "champions" that year Suproleague and Euroleague because no one played a championship final. It would be like a now defunct ABA compared to NBA think of Suproleague as the ABA and Euroleague as the NBA if that helps to make it anymore easy to understand..