RealGM

Some great thing I found as reference in 82games.com

http://www.82games.com/benchstats.htm

Our bench does not play the most minutes per game

Most minutes per game
(1) 97.7 - Seattle
(2) 95.7 - Portland
(3) 93.2 - San Antonio
(4) 89.6 - Toronto
(5) 88.4 - Dallas

Neither have the most points per game..

(1) 38.8 - Seattle
(2) 37.5 - San Antonio
(3) 37.2 - Portland
(4) 35.7 - Chicago
(5) 34.7 - LA Lakers

Our team ranks 12th, with 29 PPG. But here is the big deal, and why I think it is the best bench in the league. Well, because when they come ink, they bring energy, and they are efficient.

(-/+) Net points total impact in the season by team
(1) +498 - Utah
(2) +448 - Boston
(3) +383 - LA Lakers
(4) +357 - San Antonio
(5) +324 - Detroit

That to me is just proof of how dominant our bench is. These are stats compiled less than a month ago.

But now we think, where is the dominance coming from? Let's take a peek at our bench?

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708UTA1.HTM

Considering our 10 man rotation, let's take into account the production by them.

(-/+) Net points total impact in the season by player
(1) +215 - Paul Millsap [PF] 8.3 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 1.0 APG
(2) +142 - Kyle Korver [SG] 10.4 PPG, 1.9 RPG, 1.3 APG
(3) +86 - Jarron Collins [C] 1.7 PPG, 1.6 RPG, 0.5 APG
(4) +69 - Ronnie Price [PG] 3.4 PPG, 0.7 RPG, 1.1 APG
(5) -4 - Matt Harpring [SF] 8.2 PPG, 3.1 RPG, 1.1 APG

They intermix with the first split being Boozer and Brewer with them, and the second split being Okur and Williams. I know the numbers don't add up, but these are our rotation people, and they it don't factor CJ Miles, Gordan Giricek, Jason Hart, Kyrylo Fesenko or Morris Almond.

But man, just look at those stats.. +498

The real question is how do they do it? Their scoring average is not too impressive... Let's cut the bologna and get into it.

1st string collective individual averages (Deron, Ronnie, Andrei, Carlos and Mehmet):
Off: 108.3
Def: 101.8

2nd string team collective individual averages (Ronnie, Kyle, Matt, Paul, and Jarron):
Off: 102.1
Def: 95.4

Off: Points scored per 100 possessions
Def: Points allowed per 100 possessions

Once again, the 2nd string stats do not include the players mentioned before. However it does make the point that I wanted to get across. DEFENSIVE HUSTLE!

Just for kicks and giggles... Carlos Boozer leads the league with 325 Fouls committed, leads the league is disqualifications and is our lowest rated defensive player. However, not Andrei, but rather our greatest defensive player in efficiency is Paul Millsap, who also ranks 20th in Defensive Rating according to basketball reference.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... aders.html

In conclusion, not only active hands with steals and blocks, but most importantly with tough defense and scoring off the bench is why our bench has skyrocketed itself into the most dominant bench in the league. We might not have Manu Ginobli, Jerry Stackhouse, or Eddie House coming off the bench for us, but collectively, our bench's assignments through Sloan's coaching prowess have given us the edge that we need to be a contender and perhaps win the title.

going by some of the teams listed, the lakers, spurs, and celtics have had to deal with several injuries to their starters, forcing would be bench players into starting roles. i admit i didn't read your entire post, but do u or the stats presented address that?

dcash4 wrote:going by some of the teams listed, the lakers, spurs, and celtics have had to deal with several injuries to their starters, forcing would be bench players into starting roles. i admit i didn't read your entire post, but do u or the stats presented address that?

Partially, the net points impact by the bench is related to that, people on the day that are not in the starting lineup. However individual stats don't address that. The Jazz too have had issues with Mehmet Okur missing 6 games, Andrei Kirilenko 8 games, and Carlos Boozer 4, Ronnie Brewer 2, and Matt Hapring I think it was 6.

This proves the team is deep, and Deron Williams can get them to produce.

Points scored are just one measure of how good a bench is, but you have to take into account when bench players do other things rebound, assist, play defense. Also benches matter less in the playoffs when rotations shrink and starter minutes go up. But saying that Utah does have a great bench I just dont think its that easy to quantify its net effect.

jradMIT wrote:Points scored are just one measure of how good a bench is, but you have to take into account when bench players do other things rebound, assist, play defense. Also benches matter less in the playoffs when rotations shrink and starter minutes go up. But saying that Utah does have a great bench I just dont think its that easy to quantify its net effect.

Rebounds, Assist, and play defense is all done by the bench, and I am just proving.. +498 in net points compared to other benches like Boston or San Antonio... that is pretty valuable. three players score +8 PPG (Korver, Millsap, and Harpring), and also they are part of why Utah averages so many steals a game. 8.95 SPG as a team, which is 3rd in the league.

Utah's starting line is one of the strongest in the league. They are all capable of playing most of the game. This is a huge advantage for the Jazz because it means they won't have to go through a stretch of a game without someone like Boozer, DWill, Okur, or Andrei.

I think the +/- stat is not the greatest measure for what you're saying. I agree that their bench is really strong, it's just that the +/- has a lot to do with the people on that court. Most of them still being starters. You will hardly see Utah play a lineup with all 5 bench players. They have the luxury to still have starters on while some of them rest. It's basically saying that Millsap replacing Boozer does not make Utah any worse, or Korver and Brewer.

As a Rox fan i would beg to differ... But... i think you guys have one of the best starting 5's in the league right behind... Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles Lakers, and Dallas... and you guys have probably the best coach in the league never to win a title as a coach...

Tha Trillest Candidate wrote:As a Rox fan i would beg to differ... But... i think you guys have one of the best starting 5's in the league right behind... Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles Lakers, and Dallas... and you guys have probably the best coach in the league never to win a title as a coach...

I agree with your statements of the Jazz starting 5 and coaching but fail to see where this takes away from the Jazz bench production. Care to elaborate?

I beg to differ, Utah Jazz has the best bench in the NBA because of coaching (players know their roles and know how they have to play etc), Excellent defense brought by Millsap who could post up Shaq better than Okur or Memo, also Harpring is known to be one of the most physical defenders in the league, 2nd in SF behind Ron Artest (Very fun matchup to watch, last time Matt had 5 fouls and Ron was ejected), and Price who is our best guard defender (aka CP3 nightmare as one night he got 4 steals out of him).

Then you have the offense, Korver is a high percentage 3 pt shooter and free throw shooter. Millsap on any given night can go for 20 points in dunks of low post up isolations. Harpring and his midrange shots on top of the key and layups make him valuable too.

I dare to say, that Utah Jazz bench> Boston bench > San Antonio bench. Perhaps in talent or name recognition you wouldn't consider that, but their production compared to other bench production is definetly undeniable that they are the most dominant bench.

its hard to say who has the best bench.

each team uses their benches differently.

the one thing that makes some teams look so elite is that if starters are hurt, the bench can cover for them.

you can say that about the lakers, spurs, celtics, pistons, jazz and a few other teams.

its a great asset, but people can manipulate numbers or use different stats to show why their team is the best at something.

but at the end of the day, if your starters aren't cutting it in the playoffs, it doesn't matter.

sarah42 wrote:its a great asset, but people can manipulate numbers or use different stats to show why their team is the best at something.

but at the end of the day, if your starters aren't cutting it in the playoffs, it doesn't matter.

I agree about your starters are still the main engine, but to me, bench is what can make you or break you in the playoffs. Talk about Steve Nash, he leaves the floor, and the team is on negative net production. Look at the Jazz or Boston, they get big spurs and strong defense off their benches.

I don't know how is it that I can bend the stats here. Simply in less time, 12th to be more specific, they get higher net points than any other team in the league. That means they are quality minutes. The first split of my research is based only on players playing as bench on that day, meaning that if Millsap played as starter, his stats didn't influence the (+/-)

Duiz wrote:Excellent defense brought by Millsap who could post up Shaq better than Okur or Memo

Wow, I can understand him doing a better job than Okur, but Memo? C'mon!

Duiz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I agree about your starters are still the main engine, but to me, bench is what can make you or break you in the playoffs. Talk about Steve Nash, he leaves the floor, and the team is on negative net production. Look at the Jazz or Boston, they get big spurs and strong defense off their benches.

I don't know how is it that I can bend the stats here. Simply in less time, 12th to be more specific, they get higher net points than any other team in the league. That means they are quality minutes. The first split of my research is based only on players playing as bench on that day, meaning that if Millsap played as starter, his stats didn't influence the (+/-)

oh i didn't mean that you manipulated stats. i really meant, in general, ppl can use any stat to show what they want.

i think the real advantage for the jazz is their crowd. more so than any team in the league. its not just a loud crowd, plenty of teams have that, but it seems like the fans in utah intimidate the other team.

it truly amazing.

Not sure if Utah's bench is best or not, but I think Paul Millsap is a top 3 bench player in the league. He can fill in at the 3, 4, and sometimes guards opposing 2's. He rebounds like a 6'11 guy, has the midrange jumper of a decent 4, and plays lock down defense and blocks shots. Very versatile. I wouldnt give him up for any other bench guy in the league.

OhMyBosh wrote:Utah's starting line is one of the strongest in the league. They are all capable of playing most of the game. This is a huge advantage for the Jazz because it means they won't have to go through a stretch of a game without someone like Boozer, DWill, Okur, or Andrei.

I think the +/- stat is not the greatest measure for what you're saying. I agree that their bench is really strong, it's just that the +/- has a lot to do with the people on that court. Most of them still being starters. You will hardly see Utah play a lineup with all 5 bench players. They have the luxury to still have starters on while some of them rest. It's basically saying that Millsap replacing Boozer does not make Utah any worse, or Korver and Brewer.

Not to jump your **** or anything, but that's not true. Sloan has been getting crap from fans on our board all year long for the way that he loads the court with reserves, instead of always keeping at least one of the Memo/Boozer duo on the floor at all times, for example. There have been numerous times this season when we have trotted out a Hart/Korver/Harpring/Millsap/Collins lineup for extended stretches.

Not saying that the Jazz are as dominant as the OP is claiming, but its not true that we don't play the backups together for extended minutes. This has happened less and less as the season has gone on, but it has been a problem in many Jazz fans minds.

When the Jazz came up from 20 points behind, Paul Millsap put in that game 19 points going 6-7 to earn the Jazz the victory. It was characteristic because Sloan benched Boozer very much extendedly.

erudite23 wrote:There have been numerous times this season when we have trotted out a Hart/Korver/Harpring/Millsap/Collins lineup for extended stretches.

That lineup has been used 25 minutes this season.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07UTA2B.HTM

fugop wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That lineup has been used 25 minutes this season.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07UTA2B.HTM

I think he was talking about Price. I gotta say we don't usually have them out at the same time.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07UTA3B.HTM

Under Ronnie Price's profile it shows better the lineup we have.

Last 3 minutes of the 1st/3rd quarter...

Price-Brewer-Harpring-Millsap-Boozer

First 3 minutes of the 2nd/4th quarter...

Price-Korver-Harpring-Millsap-Okur

I do gotta say though, Korver plays the whole 2nd and 4th quarter. Millsap plays about the last 3 minutes of the 1st/3rd and then first 6 minutes of the 2nd/4th. Harpring comes in for matchup problems and stays in the game about 3 less minutes per game, usually because of his injuries.

One thing you have to consider is that Hart used to be the starting PG, until the Korver trade, in which he got death in the family, then injury, and then Price took over the job.