A big misconception about the Nuggets

[kevC]

I am tired of ignorant posters/media people saying that the Nuggets can't defend.

They are 8th in the league in defense allowing 102.6 points per 100 possessions. In fact, they are a better defensive team than they are an offensive team. They are currently 11th in the league in offense, scoring 107.2 points per 100 possessions.

Where does this misconception stem from? PACE. They are the fasted paced team in the league with a pace factor of 101.8 edging the Warriors' 101.2. Fast pace does NOT equal good offense OR bad defense.

[Entengtot]

they can play good d at times. but still there are glaring holes especially with the backcourt always goin for steals and so. plus camby and martin cannot hold it for long if they are continuously being attacked by penetraing guards.

[Bobbcats]

One thing about pace is if you are very high paced, both teams play a little sloppy and value each possession less, making the points per possession a little lower. Can the Nuggets defense force the stops when it counts? I really don't know I havent watched them much but I think that's really the key to being a good defensive team.

[Ballings7]

I am tired of ignorant posters/media people saying that the Nuggets can't defend.

They are 8th in the league in defense allowing 102.6 points per 100 possessions. In fact, they are a better defensive team than they are an offensive team. They are currently 11th in the league in offense, scoring 107.2 points per 100 possessions.

Where does this misconception stem from? PACE. They are the fasted paced team in the league with a pace factor of 101.8 edging the Warriors' 101.2. Fast pace does NOT equal good offense OR bad defense.

They've dropped two spots from 6th for the 1st half of the season, then 7th more recently, and now 8th...

They sure don't play like a consistently adequate defensive team. The performance on the court has not reflected it, and it's not like I don't have much familiarity with their play, in seeing them.

The pace factors are relevant on the regular season, but they're diminished in the playoffs because of the game slowing down. Defense and half-court offensive execution are emphasized. Unless they're playing another high-tempo team (only a small amount of those in the west, though).

Denver can't keep playing as they've been in order to take the next step as a team. Their style lacks diversity offensively, in terms of ways to score, and the typical way of playing defense. Meaning, of course, staying with your man, contesting shots, rotating, and rebounding. They don't defend in the legitimate way as a regularity. George Karl has even said earlier this season, they're "schizophrenic defensively". Obviously that doesn't mean forcing TOs, gambling for steals/blocks, because that's their strength and fuels one of their few ways to score. The problems are the reliance is too much on doing that, and lack control in doing it.

opp. offensive rebounds: 12.7, #28

opp. 3PM: 7.5, #28

opp. 3P%: 37%, #21

opp. points in the paint: 40.2, #25

Having Nene in and out over his career hasn't helped, especially this season, because he's their best overall big man defender. But he doesn't change the team's mind-set defensively. That's on the coach and front-office to change their defense as a team. They don't play relatively solid, disciplined defense enough.

Aside from random games in the regular season over the years, they showed they can (despite some noticable problems still) defend pretty well in 2005 and 2007 against the Spurs in the playoffs. Playing at the Spurs pace, which is a playoff-basketball kind of pace. But they're lacking some personnel defensively (mainly on the wings), and as a squad they're not defensive-minded, they don't win games on defense. Never have.

Denver at best is an inconsistent defensive team, thus not a passable defensive team. They can be, and better than that, but have not proven to be so collectively over time. Statistics can be decieving and only tell so much.

I think this is why Denver doesn't get much recognition, respect defensively. They don't really deserve any, either.

[Shabi__5]

IMO they gamble too much , they don't rotate almost at all.
IMO they have bad defense , when we play tem our shooters always have wide open looks.
Their switching defense is pretty good too because a lot of player are the same size.

[og15]

I personally wouldn't say their defense is bad, but it's not bad because of the great help defense they get from Camby, and Kenyon also being capable of defending decently well.

They're able to get steals, but I don't know when steals have helped a teams defensive efficiency, I don't think it does. One a whole though, they aren't a team where I see a capability of containing individuals effectively. Iverson and Carmelo are not really guys known for their defensive abilities, and they don't neccesarily have anyone off the bench who can do much on an individual defensive basis. Najera can annoy people a lot, but he's not a great defensive player by any means.

I agree though, they are not a bad defensive team, at least when comparing overall to the league. Yea, they are worse than Boston, San Antonio, Houston, Detroit, NOH, LAL, and Dallas, but who isn't? To be able to say Denver is a bad defensive team, they would have to actually be bad. They're better defensively than Golden State, or Utah (mainly due to their better help defense in terms of shot blocking), or Phoenix, and those teams don't seem to be criticized as much as Denver for being bad defensively when they're worse.

[The Notic]

They're able to get steals, but I don't know when steals have helped a teams defensive efficiency, I don't think it does.

It does. Defensive efficiency is a measure of points given up per 100 possessions. So, forcing a turnover of any kind adds to your efficiency.

[CBS7]

Very inconsistent, IMO.

[Rasheeed!!!]

Jon Barry; from Daily Dime

"If Dallas is out, it's Denver. I wouldn't say this is a sure thing, because as great as the Nuggets are offensively, they are equally bad defensively. Is the offense going to be enough? "


Anyone that watches Nuggs regularly knows that they don't really run and offense.

[Blame Rasho]

Jon Barry; from Daily Dime

"If Dallas is out, it's Denver. I wouldn't say this is a sure thing, because as great as the Nuggets are offensively, they are equally bad defensively. Is the offense going to be enough? "


Anyone that watches Nuggs regularly knows that they don't really run and offense.

LOL... Barry is an idiot.

[YiYaoYue]

AI's steal and Camby's block shots/rebounding is masking their inability to contest shots. Stats are stats... they dont show the whole story.

[HarlemHeat37]

They're great at getting blocks and steals..that's pretty much it IMO as far as team D goes..their perimeter D is terrible..at least they have a few capable defenders on the interior..Camby might be the most overrated defensive player in the NBA though..sadly, blocks go a long way for the DPOY voters..

[blue steel]

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LOL... Barry is an idiot.

Barry is just regurgitating what all other (Please Use More Appropriate Word) analysts think but hes not too far off. The nuggets defense can blow so bad sometimes, I'm not surprised at all that we are ranked #28 in the league in opponent 3pt makes because teams drop open threes on us all night. Our offense can get equally stagnant or even worse than our d at times though. For some reason everyone thinks we can score "whenever we want too," even nuggets players say that during interviews and i just sit there wondering how they really think that.

But the nuggets are a classic dr jekyll mr hyde team, they just dont all show up every game or play as a team. But they have shown the ability to be a good defensive team in the playoffs. Any spurs fans should agree that our defense was not a problem during our last playoff series, it was our offense. I actually think the nuggets held the spurs to their lowest point ppg production of the playoffs during the series against us.

[loserX]

Well, let's not forget that everyone isn't the stat-heads that some of us are.

Denver has the 3rd best offence in the entire league (in PPG, anyway)...and yet if the playoffs began today they'd be out (half a game back of the Warriors).

Rightly or wrongly, it wouldn't be difficult for a more casual fan to conclude that their defence must not be very good. That's usually where misconceptions come from.

[Ballings7]

Their perimeter defense really needs to improve, like has been said... the size, skill, and the intention of role in general from a couple guys aren't there.

AI
Carter
Atkins
Diawara
Carmelo
Kleiza
Smith
Green

The best defenders out of there are Carter, Diawara, and Kleiza. But the first two have different flaws and questions preventing them from being what's needed defensively.

Carter, because he's far too small to be relied on consistently to defend SGs, and isn't enough of a shooter offensively. Carter's not a starting-caliber player, rather a spot-starter, back-up player, and because of his weak areas doesn't make for the right type of back-court partner for AI. He has the offensive difference part, hustle, energy, defense (on PGs, partial SGs to a degree), but he isn't enough next to AI.

Diawara, has had erratic playing time, has had a pretty unproven jumpshot, and doesn't have significant experience yet for a 2nd-year player. Also questionable how established he is to the refs as a defender, where he can get calls. That being an underlying factor to the other three things, it's something that can and will come with continuity in playing. If Diawara's going to be stuck with on the team, he needs to work on and establish his 3PT shot and get consistent PT. Then if not starting (which may well be), he has to be in the game for the latter part of it. Or else his defense really is limited in how effective and meanigful it is, because of the cut off time to somebody else for the 4th qtr (more on this kind of situation below).

Kleiza's a decent start off the bench at SF as a complementary player that has defensive ability, but one more guy is needed that's an SG, SG/SF, and is a top-level defender. Diawara could definitely be that with his size, quickness, toughness, and what he's shown at times, but a few things need to emerge first with him.

A specific situation with their defense on the perimeter, is with AI playing SG and Carmelo playing SF, the former is probably going to continue, and of course Carmelo at SF is a lock - it really restricts what they can do personnel-wise in the starting line-up on the wings defensively. Meaning like with AI at SG in the past, a team-playing point-player that can defend and make open shots will need to be acquired at PG. Except unlike with Philly, because of Carmelo at SF, the guy at PG will have to be more of a typical SG/SF sized player that can guard all three perimeter spots effectively. Rather than a bigger kind of guard at PG like Eric Snow, because with Philly you also had George Lynch, Aaron Mckie, Jumaine Jones, Bell, Hughes at the other two wing-spots to play defense.

So, unless AI slides over to PG later in the game (which he's better at SG), where a Diawara-type of swingman can come in and play a role and defend, somebody like described above will have to be acquired as the third wing-player, at PG.

If Carmelo could evolve and improve defensively like LeBron has, things would be easier. But even so, you'd still need another defender in there because of AI and not having another guy to defend on the perimeter in the starting line-up.

If they had kept Bobby Jones who had a handful of nice moments for Denver earlier in the year, and looked like he may stick around, I think he would of been the perfect guy next to Carmelo for the future at SG for when AI is gone, or if he slid over to PG. I've always really liked Jones since the draft in 06, and think he just needs to find a team that will commit to him to have a regular spot, he has the game. Maybe Denver will get him back next season.

[NetsForce]

Is there a site that measures the amount of possessions per game averaged by a team's opponnets?

[elbowthrower]

Their D is pretty weak in the post- not having Nene in the playoffs will be a big problem for them.

Camby takes every other night off.

And any team with a really good 2 guard shreds them.

Other than that, they're capable of playing decent D.

[YiYaoYue]

decent D doesn't cut it in the west. you have to have either solid D or good D.

[og15]

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It does. Defensive efficiency is a measure of points given up per 100 possessions. So, forcing a turnover of any kind adds to your efficiency.

I don't think you understood my point. Getting more steals as a team is not more effective in improving your team defense than playing solid man to man defense and properly contesting shots.

Denver is #5 in opponent turnovers per 100 posessions, only Boston who are #1 is in the Top 5, and are a better defensive team than Denver. It isn't until we get down to the team #13 in turnovers per 100 posessions (Detroit) that we see another team better than Denver in defensive efficiency. So I'm saying that there isn't a correlation of forcing turnovers to better defensive efficiency. Most of the better defensive teams are forcing just an average amount of turnovers.

While in theory it makes sense, it is the idea that focusing on forcing turnovers takes away from better man to man defense, and does not improve a teams defense as opposed to just playing good defense and letting the other team make the mistakes. So you get turnovers that aren't neccesarily steals, or at least steals from gambling, but steals from good defense.

Do you get what I'm trying to say?

[Blame Rasho]

Camby might be the most overrated defensive player in the NBA though..sadly, blocks go a long way for the DPOY voters..

I actually think it is quite sad that he is often not even the best defender on his team, hey.... BLOCKS!!! OMG.