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There has been alot of talk over the past few years of fans of teams wanting to trade players or fire coaches and pickup guys to develop a "Run N' Gun" syste, in which you try to hide your deficiencies by playing with quicker players that can run the other team out of the gym.

There has also been alot of talk for years (currently a thread on it) that the Run N' Gun isnt successful in the playoffs. This has absolutely no merit to it and I am here to prove that someone likely just said that trying to act like they know alot and then it caught on and now its almost a common understanding that Running teams cant win playoff games as if, teams that are successful in the regular season with the fast paced game suddenly arent because the pace slows down (Ive heard this countless times and theres simply no merit to it). Do teams in the regular season enjoy much success at the Run N' Gun?

Look at the top 15 teams with the highest pace via Hollingers Team Stats
1. Denver Nuggets
2. GS Warriors
3. Indiana Pacers
4. Phoenix Suns
5. Seattle Sonics
6. L.A. Lakers
7. Memphis Grizzlies
8. Sacramento Kings
9. Utah Jazz
10. Chicago Bulls
11. Orlando Magic
12. L.A. Clippers
13. Minnesota Timberwolves
14. Charlotte Bobcats
15. New Jersey Nets

I bolded both the Warriors and the Nuggets even though 1 of them will likely not make it. So out of the top 15 teams only 6 teams are playoff calibur teams and only 5 will actually make the playoffs. Out of those 5 only 2 or 3 of them are considered title contenders (Suns, Lakers, Jazz are iffy but for the sake of the argument). All three of those contenders can also play great basketball in a half court set and have key players that compliment a half court game more than a full court game (Boozerfor the Jazz, Gasol and Bynum for the Lakers, Shaq for the Suns).

So if 5 out of the 16 playoff teams are in the top half of the league in pace can an argument even be made that "Run and Gun" teams are even successful in the regular season?

The reason I feel like its not successful is because, and even more so in the playoffs, is because at the end of the game when you need a stop or you need a bucket chances are high its not going to be a fast break attempt, and you need to be able to score with good consistency in a half court. Which is also why the playoff teams that have a fast pace are good, they have guys like Deron, Boozer, Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Davis, Jackson, Anthony, and Iverson that can score on guys in a half court game when the games on the line.

I dont expect the whole "we should dump all of our players for athletes so we can be a Run N' Gun team" to stop because there are simply just too many stupid posters that will pretty much listen and say anything to sound knowledgeable. The fact is that Run N' Gun is not successful ever, you need to have a reliable half court offense and you need to be able to stop a team on defense or you will not win, this is the NBA not street ball.

If this doesnt prove the Run N' Gun doesnt work then I dont know what does.

P.S. Why is it always called Run N Gun? It has to be one of the most stupid terms in basketball and EVERYONE refers to it as if it is a good thing. Why cant it just be called a fast paced offense, Run N Gun just sounds lame and really is stupid.

I don't think that anyone has ever said that run and gun is successful. If the did, they must be on some sort of drugs.

Number34 wrote:I don't think that anyone has ever said that run and gun is successful. If the did, they must be on some sort of drugs.

anybody here even realize how the celltics got all them championships??? the "fastbreak"(thats what its called, dont know where this new name came from) CAN be successful. you just need a REALLY good defensive center, but its possible

haha where have you been?

Your trying to tell me that youvenever heard anyone say that "we should trade this guy and that guy and get a coach that will run, we have some good pieces for running" if you havent im convinced that someone has hacked into your account and said that or all of your psts have been on the OT board.

Anyone who knows basketball knows a team who relies on making easy baskets and jumpshots, or even in general scoring, to win games ultimately doesn't work. Meaning the playoffs. That kind of approach, make-up from a team will only get you so much in the playoffs.

I don't just call it run n' gun, I mix it up with speed-ball (as Doug Collins called it once recently), fast-break style, running system/team, high tempo (though this is more specific with details of a team).

I like speed-ball the best. It's fun to say, too.

Third relative topic on this in like the last few days (one made today)...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... a311d69569

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... a311d69569

yeah, people try to build a good fastbreak team. its nothing new. and it CAN be successful

greenbeans wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



anybody here even realize how the celltics got all them championships??? the "fastbreak"(thats what its called, dont know where this new name came from) CAN be successful. you just need a REALLY good defensive center, but its possible

More like a team that can play at both fast tempo and slow tempo. For example Spurs could play grind it out or run fastbreak with the best of them. The key to win in playoff is to be versatile, and adjusting your game to the opponent. That's why Dallas lost to a high tempo team like Warriors last year, that's why Suns got Shaq in order to be more versatile.

actually they lost because they adjusted to there opponents in my opinion. The Warriors took them out of there game and turned them into something else. That team that got upset by an 8 seed in the first round was deffinitly not the team that won 67 games (or something like that).

The Celtics are a great example of a winning team, however they were not just a fastbreak team, they could really do everything with that cast of players and they did do everything, not just fast break. Id also like to point out that that was 2 or 3 eras ago and the game has completely transformed.

Ballings, you dont need a really good defensive center to be a great running team, good running teams are going to struggle winning close games because down the stretch the opportunity to run gets less and less. Running teams for the most part are not successful and in my first post I listed the stats that prove it.

People need to realise that untill we extend the size of the court (which we seriouslly need to do) fastbreak basketball wont work.

When the original courts were made the players were not 6'8" 240 pound running machines, extend the court for gods sake!

Scalabrine wrote:
Look at the top 15 teams with the highest pace via Hollingers Team Stats
1. Denver Nuggets
2. GS Warriors
3. Indiana Pacers
4. Phoenix Suns
5. Seattle Sonics
6. L.A. Lakers
7. Memphis Grizzlies
8. Sacramento Kings
9. Utah Jazz
10. Chicago Bulls
11. Orlando Magic
12. L.A. Clippers
13. Minnesota Timberwolves
14. Charlotte Bobcats
15. New Jersey Nets

Ehhh. That list in it of itself pretty much shows why only 5 of those teams would make the playoffs. Other then maybe the Bulls and Nets, those non-playoff contenders suck b/c they don't have good players, not b/c of their pace. Basically, I see teams that are in complete rebuilding mode like Seattle, Memphis, Minnesota; teams that are just complete messes like Sac, Indy, Char, Chicago; and the Clips who lost Brand and Livingston.

And in the case of the Bulls and Nets, there are several other factors, selfishness, underachieving players, lack of inside play, that explain as to why they underachieved as a team this year.