The Chicago Bulls and their struggles

[CBS7]

Hinrich -4.6 ppg -3.3 FG%
He has played some uninspiring ball all season. He's had big games here and there but he's just not the same player he was last year. His defense isn't there anymore, he's settling for worse shots, not hustling as much, etc. And to people that say its because he got a contract, I do believe he signed it before last year.

Gordon -2.4 ppg -2.2 FG%
This guy has been improving every year, his jumper was more consistent, his defense was getting better, his ballhandling... this year, not so much. Although he has disappointed me the least out of the "Big 3" this year. He's having a decent season if you don't take into account the expectations he had and how good he was last year.

Deng -1.9 ppg -4.4 FG%
Same with Gordon, improved his scoring, rebounding, and FG% every year, and was coming off a year where he averaged 19 ppg on 52% shooting, and demolished the Heat in a first round sweep. This year... he's less aggressive, regressed defensively, went from an extremely high bball IQ to a guy who made some questionable decisions in games.

I mean these guys were really good last year. Them three are the biggest reason for the Bulls' failings this year.

[CBS7]

Everyone just overestimated how much potential the Bulls players had on their team. Deng and Gordon will probably improve somewhat, but neither of them are going to become stars or even first options. Tyrus has alot of potential, but who knows if he will ever meet it. Noah will be a good starter in the league. The Bulls don't have any players on their team that can develop into a legit star, thats why they will probably be stuck in mediocrity unless they make a trade.

The thing is.. they didn't have to become stars or first options overnight. They just had to improve off of what they did the previous season and keep playing defense and playing well together. Then they would have met expectations.

Forget the Heat series, did people forget that this team won 49 games, came 1 game from getting the 2 seed, and had 3 young guys that were putting up some good stats and playing good defense?

This "they don't have a star" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sure maybe you always thought that they'd win a title with that roster, and I'm not sure I would have disagreed with you back then. But they don't have a star now, they didn't have one last year, that isn't the reason they have regressed so much this year.

[Flash3]

This "they don't have a star" stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Sure maybe you always thought that they'd win a title with that roster, and I'm not sure I would have disagreed with you back then. But they don't have a star now, they didn't have one last year, that isn't the reason they have regressed so much this year.

I still think this is a valid statement.

Unless your defense is top-notch each and every night, you're going to need that 1 player that can take over a series, let alone an entire post-season a la a Wade, LeBron, Kobe.

The Bulls don't have that 1 player, and have gone 3(?) post-seasons w/o that 1 scorer taking over for them each and every game. -- They don't have that 1 player who requires the defense to double and pay attention to each and every time down court, making it that much harder for the other players on the team to do their stuff.

[LiquidFire]

Mil bucks's coach really, really scares me... like really he looks like a murderer or somthing..

[a-rod]

1. players are not 100% healthy
2.^defense regressed
3. perimeter oriented team (No easy basket)
4. undersized back court
5. No leader
6. lack of inside presence
7. no player on the bulls demands a frequent double team.(no true superstar to take the pressure off the role players)
8.lack of playmaking ability on offense. on a consistent basis

[CBS7]

1. players are not 100% healthy
2.^defense regressed
3. perimeter oriented team (No easy basket)
4. undersized back court
5. No leader
6. lack of inside presence
7. no player on the bulls demands a frequent double team.(no true superstar to take the pressure off the role players)
8.they lack that playmaking ability on a consistent basis

#2 should be #1, and the first two are the only valid reasons.

The others are true, yes, but again, same roster as last year.

[CatNation]

their best players are ben gordan and luol deng. nuff said

[CBS7]

their best players are ben gordan and luol deng. nuff said

Who were our best players last year?

Its like a broken record in here, haha. A lot of the replies in this thread are valid responses to the question "Why aren't the Bulls true contenders" or "Why won't the Bulls current roster win a ring". But that isn't the question, the question is why they have regressed so much.

[Flash3]

^What's the latest in Chicago as to the values of Ben Gordon and Luol Deng?

[Flash3]

-= original quote snipped =-



Who were our best players last year?

Its like a broken record in here, haha. A lot of the replies in this thread are valid responses to the question "Why aren't the Bulls true contenders" or "Why won't the Bulls current roster win a ring". But that isn't the question, the question is why they have regressed so much.

Indeed, but people by pass the topic on hand and infiltrate their hatred and silliness instead.

[Basileus777]

-= original quote snipped =-



Who were our best players last year?

Its like a broken record in here, haha. A lot of the replies in this thread are valid responses to the question "Why aren't the Bulls true contenders" or "Why won't the Bulls current roster win a ring". But that isn't the question, the question is why they have regressed so much.

That has been discussed. The Bulls have had problems in their lockerroom, with coaching, with contracts, and their chemistry has suffered. Instead of being a team that overachieved by out-hustling their opponents and playing great defense they have stopped doing both and regressed.

Not everyone shared your assumption that this year is a fluke. I don't think this year shows how good the Bulls are, but I still believe they overachieved in the past. This year is a much of a fluke and last year.

[JordansBulls]

Fans too arrogant. I still remember them talking about winning the title this season. They were so arrogant that they didn't think giving up Deng worth it for Kobe Bryant.....hahaha.

What makes it all the more laughable that they thought they were contenders were that this was the weakest the East has ever been.

Seems to me, they over-hyped their chances by thinking sense they swept Miami, they had enough to go all the way the next season.

Too bad they didn't realize that Miami's implosion happened in last year's playoffs and last season in the first round, they really faced this year's miami heat.

Aside from the Karma from the fans, greedy ass players like Ben Gordon sealed their fate.

I still remember this thread and poll. While I was confident I still believed Boston would be better.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... c&start=48

[writerman]

[quote="CBS7"]Hinrich -4.6 ppg -3.3 FG%
He has played some uninspiring ball all season. He's had big games here and there but he's just not the same player he was last year. His defense isn't there anymore, he's settling for worse shots, not hustling as much, etc. And to people that say its because he got a contract, I do believe he signed it before last year.

but I was saying in posts a year or two ago that I couldn't understand why this guy was rated so highly. He plays with more silly, useless waste motion than any player I've seen in years. He's never impressed me, and a good example of a guy who for some reason or another was less than his stats.

[Jemini80]

I think it is more than just this year. This team doesn't have a consistent identity and idea for the future.

I mean when they had their first real shot to build around a dominant big man, they trade Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler. They then proceed to commit to Tyson Chandler in the long run, and trade him for nothing. They decide to swap Chandler with Ben Wallace thinking that a 30 something year old man will play at the same level.

Last year you could see the confusion once again, with drafting Tyrus Thomas very high, and not giving him the chances needed to contribute. Even last year the conflict was starting with who's team it was. Is it Kirk's team? Is it Gordon's team? Is it Deng's team?

Then this season they make the monumental mistake of fracturing the psyche of all their young players with the Kobe trade talks. Not only that, but it further alienated both Deng and Gordon to seek selfish goals to make themselves worth more on the open market. I believe after they turned down extensions they believed to be too little for them, there began to be resentment towards Nocioni for him receiving above market value, and Heinrich held resentment towards Deng and Gordon for not committing to this team.

There just is no chemistry on this team, and are doomed no matter who coaches. If you have no chemistry and trust between players you will have no team defense and you will lose. Then you interject Joakim Noah into this situation. He sees the team breaking down, he sees the ship sinking, and he tries to step up, become the leader they desperately need, and he gets punished for it. I think it is the front office who is to blame. And this has just been a miserable season for the Bulls.

Stocked with a top 10 pick in the draft they will be able to take a replacement for Ben Gordon, and get huge return for Gordon (probably an established post scorer). Then they can use this upcoming season to evaluate Noah and Thomas, and eventually decide which one to keep next to the post scorer.

[ice9]

The last 3 years we didn't have a star. The last 3 years we haven't had a post presence ('cept Eddy Curry for 60ish games in 04-05). The last 3 years Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich were our best players. The last 3 years they led us to the playoffs. To say that we didn't make the playoffs this year (not only that, we've only won 30 games after averaging 46 the last 3 years) for those reasons is just stupid.

The last 3 years they all improved significantly every season. It was reasonable to expect them to improve again or at least stay the same considering age. Last year we won 49 games, and the only roster change was adding Noah and upgrading from PJ to Joe Smith. It was reasonable to expect that to be an upgrade. It was reasonable to assume Tyrus and Thabo would improve, especially after Tyrus's post all-star break performance last year. Given 49 wins last year (with an expected win total of 53-55 games based on point differential), and expected improvement, it was reasonable to assume 50-55 wins. That is what Bulls fans predicted. The GB felt the same way. I don't see how this makes Bulls fans arrogant.

As far as trading Deng for Kobe, pretty much every Bulls fan would. Pax was willing too. It was Kobe that vetoed the trade because he wanted to play with Deng. Please don't bring that revisionist history in here.

Why the Bulls suck:

1) Hinrich: regressed on defense, shooting, and running a team
2) Deng: he doesn't have balls. Disappears at the end of games, Kobe talks got to him, contract talks got to him, and he was injured.
3) Nocioni: Crappy D and chucking. If only we could transfer his stones to Deng.
4) Duhon: He played more than a minute this season
5) Coaching. I'm not sure how to elaborate. I wish we still had Tim Floyd. *tear*
6) Wallace. Succubus he was.


Inconsistent minutes for the young guys, no one being able to throw a lob, no one caring, a MAJOR regression in team defense, ball movement, energy, hustle and grit are also problems.

There are plenty of reasons for us sucking.

[Blame Rasho]

They were/are shooting team that simply can't shoot. They also forgot how to rebound and defend.

[CBS7]

Hinrich -4.6 ppg -3.3 FG%
He has played some uninspiring ball all season. He's had big games here and there but he's just not the same player he was last year. His defense isn't there anymore, he's settling for worse shots, not hustling as much, etc. And to people that say its because he got a contract, I do believe he signed it before last year.

but I was saying in posts a year or two ago that I couldn't understand why this guy was rated so highly. He plays with more silly, useless waste motion than any player I've seen in years. He's never impressed me, and a good example of a guy who for some reason or another was less than his stats.

You've brought up the "waste of motion" arguement several times and I still don't know what you mean by it.

He was one of the best defensive PGs in the league (all D 2nd team without big steals numbers, that tells you something), was a pretty good shooter last year (16.6 ppg, 45 FG%, 42 3PT%), a decent playmaker and absolutely instrumental to the Bulls' success. Thats why he was rated so highly. You'd never see people call him a top 5 PG in the league, but he was easily top 10 last year.

I always found it funny when a player starts to fail his detractors start saying stuff like "I always knew he wasn't that good"

[celticfan42487]

there team was full of great roleplayers who started playing like superstars but don't have the talent or creation ability to pull it off.

A great defensive team is as much about the effort of everyone and a teams morality as it is an individual player's ability. Once shattered it would take a big shock to the team to get back the player's minds.

You don't fluke lost heart.

[sp6r=underrated]

Part of it was bad luck. Shooting percentages is a stat that fluctuates very highly between seasons in comparison to other stats. They suffered from many players just losing their jumper in the same season.

Part of it is the contract situation. The players didn't handle their contract year well at all.

Finally, I think the stress of having to grind it out for every minute of every game, year in year out, mentally wore down the team this season.

I have little doubt their record will go up next season. The talent on the roster is better than the win total. But roster adjustments may be necessary.

[Flash3]

But, it begs to question, was the success they experienced the last few seasons a fluke, more so than their failure this season? -- It's not a stretch to say they've 'fallen back down' or is it?

I think their issues are more than just the effort/hustle, but more so the mental issues of the players; I > The Team (Gordon/Deng) etc.