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I've noticed fans talk a lot about needing a great PG or a pass first point guard. But, there have not be a ton of pass first point guards winning championships in recent years.

2007 SAS Parker
2006 MIA Williams
2005 SAS Parker
2004 DET Billups
2003 SAS Parker
2002 LAL Fisher
2001 LAL Fisher
2000 LAL Harper
1999 SAS Johnson
1998 CHI Harper
1997 CHI Harper
1998 CHI Harper
1997 HOU Smith
1996 HOU Smith
1995 CHI Armstrong
1994 CHI Paxson
1993 CHI Paxson
1992 DET Thomas

You really have to go all the way back to 1992 to find a big time passing point guard who won a championship. Parker and Billups are good but both are more scoring ones, as opposed to a true pass first point guard. Anthony Johnson is probably the only other guy that is "pass first" and he was at best a 3rd wheel on his team. This year the top contenders top contenders are Rondo, or a repeat of previous years.

Do rebuilding teams put too much importance a PG? As a celtics fan I remember the constant demands for the celtics to get a PG, and they are now contending with freakin' Rajon Rondo.

If you made comparable lists of SG, SF, PF and C I think you would see more great players at all those positions from championship teams. Is PG the least important position building a contender, or is this just a Phil Jackson effect?

The PG spot is demanded points in the playoffs. The defense will double your stars if they aren't a PG. The PG is going to be an option to score. The playoffs are a whole new dimension. You need everyone to score in the playoffs including the PG position.

I think your also seeing more wing players that fit the bill as elite scorers/play makers for their teams.
Just using the last 10 years you have

Manu, Wade, Kobe, Jordan.

If you are strictly one dimensional (whether pass only, shoot only, drive only, etc.) the NBA teams and players are good enough to shut you down. It's honestly analogous to a player who only can dribble right; the players will crowd your right hand and force you to go to your weakness.

Golabki wrote:I've noticed fans talk a lot about needing a great PG or a pass first point guard. But, there have not be a ton of pass first point guards winning championships in recent years.

2007 SAS Duncan
2006 MIA O'Neal
2005 SAS Duncan
2004 DET Wallacex2 and uber-balance
2003 SAS Duncan
2002 LAL O'Neal
2001 LAL O'Neal
2000 LAL O'Neal
1999 SAS Duncan and Robinson
1998 CHI MJ
1997 CHI MJ
1998 CHI MJ
1997 HOU Olajuwon
1996 HOU Olajuwon
1995 CHI MJ
1994 CHI MJ
1993 CHI MJ
1992 DET Thomas and uber-balance

Basically, what we have observed is you either need a HOF bigman, the GOAT, or 3+ all-stars to win a championship. Few of these offenses HAD to run through a PG. Duncan controls much of the game from the post, high or low. O'Neal had Bryant. Jordan had Pippen and other specialized role-players. Olajuwon had Drexler and others.

and Isiah Thomas was as much of a scorer--if not more--as he was a passer.

Jsut because a guy like Billups can score doesn't mean he isn't pass first.

Because if the PG can score, the defense focuses more on him which frees up the other players.

ALl you need is defense. You don't need super stars.

if the officiating in the playoffs was the same as the regular season and the game was more open court, perhaps the passing PG would have more impact in the playoffs?

JWill was most certainly a pass-first PG during our run. Riles wanted him to shoot a lot more than he did.

PG's who are pass first, pass second, then maybe shoot are something of a liability.
Although Avery Johnson certainly comes close to this description as anyone on your list.

PG's who pass and shoot (such as Billups, Parker, Isiah, and on their good days Williams and Smith) are generally the best option for most teams.

Teams that have wings or post players who can create offense on their own can function effectively with spot-up shooter type pg's (Fisher, Harper, Armstrong, Paxon). These players are relatively easy to find (because they don't work with a lot of teams) so if a team has most of it's value in star players at other positions they fill in with these guys, and if their star players and other role players are good enough they win titles.

they seem to be winning mvp's though.

GJense4181 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Basically, what we have observed is you either need a HOF bigman, the GOAT, or 3+ all-stars to win a championship. Few of these offenses HAD to run through a PG. Duncan controls much of the game from the post, high or low. O'Neal had Bryant. Jordan had Pippen and other specialized role-players. Olajuwon had Drexler and others.

and Isiah Thomas was as much of a scorer--if not more--as he was a passer.

Yep.

Pass first point guards are critically important for "system" teams, but less so for teams that prefer a one-on-one or run-and-gun mentality.

There just aren't that many teams in the NBA any more that are disciplined enough to run offensive sets all the time. A team like the Jazz depends on the point guard to run the offense. A team like the Nuggets just let whoever has the ball try and score.

This shift to less organized offenses has led to their being a dearth of pass-first PGs. Guys want to get theirs first as opposed to getting their teammates involved. Its what makes guy's like Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Jason Kidd so valuable. They have figured out that if they get their teammates involved, they still end up getting theirs, but so do their teammates.

Look at the best teams in the league: The Lakers (Fisher), The Hornets (CP3), The Spurs (Parker), The Jazz (Williams), The Suns (Nash), The Celtics (Rondo) and The Pistons (Billups). All of these PGs have figured out that their team is best when they give the ball up and run their sets.

Baron Davis and Allen Iverson are awesome players. I'm not sure that they make their teammates better, though.

jason william it's a pure pg. first pass pgs are important to win, but the most important thing we all know is have a big man like duncan or shaq.

JDubJazz wrote:Pass first

Look at the best teams in the league: The Lakers (Fisher), The Hornets (CP3), The Spurs (Parker), The Jazz (Williams), The Suns (Nash), The Celtics (Rondo) and The Pistons (Billups).

best teams? based on what?

Well it is due to the fact that low post scorers are significantly important... that is why.

Phoenix Rockets wrote:jason william it's a pure pg. first pass pgs are important to win, but the most important thing we all know is have a big man like duncan or shaq.


-= original quote snipped =-



best teams? based on what?

In their records????

The Suns have better record than the Rockets?

The dream is the only player in the history of NBA that won it all alone but thats because he was the best on both ends of the floor.

JDubJazz has made a point. I remember once Jason Williams having 10 assists in a quarter. Although that is vintage Chris Paul and Deron Williams, still shows the mentality of passing first. I think the Allen Iverson, Jason Terry, and Baron Davis examples are excellent, and to a point Mike Bibby too. They don't end up making the bench players better, or the starters All-Stars... The only way for them to be able to do that is to have sick night with numbers, and gain the upmost respect from referees and the opponents defense, which is not really simple to accomplish.