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You know some nights you can't buy a shot... so my question is who can truly excel when their shot is totally off?

Jason Kidd comes to mind.

Most upper-echelon defenders can have a positive impact on the game without scoring.

Bruce Bowen & Ron Artest

miller31time wrote:Most upper-echelon defenders can have a positive impact on the game without scoring.

Yep and upper echelon PGs like Paul, Williams and Nash.

miller31time wrote:Most upper-echelon defenders can have a positive impact on the game without scoring.

True dat. Also, players who have the ability to get to the line can be effective as well.

mzepol wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



True dat. Also, players who have the ability to get to the line can be effective as well.

Or good defensive players who can slow down their opponent on the defensive end. . .

Point Guards?

Didn't Paul and Williams go 4-100 combined yesterday, yet they had ~25 assists b/w the 2 of them.

For their team? T-Mac for me. lol He sometimes scores 11 and we win by 15-20. Just having him in the game we play 20x better no matter if he's playing bad or not.

Flash3 wrote:Point Guards?

Didn't Paul and Williams go 4-100 combined yesterday, yet they had ~25 assists b/w the 2 of them.

Exactly....

I don't think defenders like Bowen can be considered extremely effective unless they lockdown a player and even at that it is a rarity for that to happen.

Kobe Bryant can be extremely effective without scoring.

Texas Longhorns wrote:For their team? T-Mac for me. lol He sometimes scores 11 and we win by 15-20. Just having him in the game we play 20x better no matter if he's playing bad or not.

This was also what I was referring to, just having a player on the court is enough for a team* to play good.

I think of a player like Nene who team plays good when he is on the court.

Marcus Camby came to mind (statistically).

Blame Rasho wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



This was also what I was referring to, just having a player on the court is enough for a player to play good.

I think of a player like Nene who team plays good when he is on the court.

I'm glad you mentioned Nene, since coming back from cancer, the few minutes hes played on certain nights have been great. I dont know if its just inspiring to see him on the court or if its the toughness he brings but it worked...for the 30 minutes or so hes played...

i love my nugz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'm glad you mentioned Nene, since coming back from cancer, the few minutes hes played on certain nights have been great. I dont know if its just inspiring to see him on the court or if its the toughness he brings but it worked...for the 30 minutes or so hes played...

Yeah I noticed that recently... even if he doesn't post good stats his teammates play better.

Blame Rasho wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Exactly....

I don't think defenders like Bowen can be considered extremely effective unless they lockdown a player and even at that it is a rarity for that to happen.

not necessarily, players like Zo and Mutumbo might not block 10 shots a game, but they definitely change as many, if not more, a game.

just there presence in the paint alters shots, way before they are even taken.

Flash3 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

not necessarily, players like Zo and Mutumbo might not block 10 shots a game, but they definitely change as many, if not more, a game.

just there presence in the paint alters shots, way before they are even taken.

Zo and Deke anchor the paint... unlike Bowen he can only be effective outside the paint.

Iverson and Melo, obviously

And Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, Dwight Howard, Garnett, etc.

Basically anyone who can defend, pass or rebound fits this criteria. That's a frighteningly small number of elite players, but there you go.

I think presence alone, either offensively or defensively is pretty big. Also of course pass first PG's and Rodman type rebounders. I also agree with ability to get to the FT line as well (by scoring points and team foul penalty)

Blame Rasho wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Zo and Deke anchor the paint... unlike Bowen he can only be effective outside the paint.

I disagree, I think players like Ron & Bruce can change the course of a game....since almost always they are guarding the teams best player(s)

They can get into the head & really fustrate the person their defending...which causes them to have bad offensive games & sometimes getting their whole offense out of sort. Not that they are going to shut them down nec. because players like Lebron & Kobe can't be stopped....


Bruce does it all the tyme to Ray-Ray
Ron always slows down T-mac (examples)