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I was reading up on some prospects in this draft and I came across Eric Gordon being compared to a better version of Ben Gordon. This just got me wondering...

What do people around the league think of Ben and Deng. Outside of chicago it's kind of hard to get a good idea of these since all I hear now is "theyre over-rated" blah blah blah. I dont just want someone to come here and say "they suck and thats it"...i really want to know what you think.

IMO they're both good players just a tad underneath of all-star caliber. Sure they can be one someday, especially in the east. But they're not the type of players where you build a team around. The chicago franchise are idiots for not offering both deng and gordon to the lakers for kobe. Then only offered Gordon, Ben wallace, and sefolosha thinking the lakers had to "deal" kobe right away. I bet everyone in Chicago are kicking themselves now.

Deng: Very good size for SF, overall I think he a solid to good defender, also a pretty solid rebounder. His play making also gets makes me think solid, he doesn't strike me as a dynamic playmaker but a guy who has pretty good basketball IQ and knows when to make the right play. Outside shooting is a bit a concern for me he is a career 28% from the 3 point line. Thats not a huge negative but its definitely a weaker areas to his game.

BG: Clearly he is a great shooter, looking at his percentages I don't a much there to pick on. With him it comes down to is pretty clearly is a 2 guard in a PG body as far as the NBA is concerned. And I suppose it could be a reflection of how he is used but when I've been able to see him play he really never struck me as even a decent play maker for others. His Ast/TO is not where you'd want it to be. He also can be a liability on the defensive end because of his size.

From an outsider looking in my biggest concern with these guys is hearing contract demands for a price tag that really seems way higher then what they produce. BG specifically is a player I look at that has to have the right type of players next to him to get good production out of.

Intensity wrote:The chicago franchise are idiots for not offering both deng and gordon to the lakers for kobe. Then only offered Gordon, Ben wallace, and sefolosha thinking the lakers had to "deal" kobe right away. I bet everyone in Chicago are kicking themselves now.

How many times does this need to be explained?! Kobe would veto any trade with Deng, Pax was more than willing to deal him. It was Kobe that stopped a trade from going through, not Chicago's unwillingness to deal.

I like Gordon a lot, he has the mentality and the tools to be an elite scorer in this league, his shooting form is one of the best, with quick release and high accuracy, he also has the swagger and killer instinct of a scorer, his size is an issue that makes him hard fit, needing a big point guard or a ball dominating 2 who isn't a scorer next to him, I think he better shed some of these muscles he has, he doesn't use them at all, and they hinder his quickness.
Any mention of Deng being an franchise player or anything close to that level is overrating IMO, he has neither the mentality nor the tools to be one, he's a good, versatile SF, in the mold of many good and versatile SFs in this league.

_SRV_ wrote:I like Gordon a lot, he has the mentality and the tools to be an elite scorer in this league, his shooting form is one of the best, with quick release and high accuracy, he also has the swagger and killer instinct of a scorer, his size is an issue that makes him hard fit, needing a big point guard or a ball dominating 2 who isn't a scorer next to him, I think he better shed some of these muscles he has, he doesn't use them at all, and they hinder his quickness.
Any mention of Deng being an franchise player or anything close to that level is overrating IMO, he has neither the mentality nor the tools to be one, he's a good, versatile SF, in the mold of many good and versatile SFs in this league.

Yes, yet when his shot isn't falling, he's completely useless on the court, and a liability on the defensive end.

He's not that much of a liability if he's guarding PGs, and the first part of your sentence is true for every shooter in this league, that doesn't make them less valuable.

_SRV_ wrote:He's not that much of a liability if he's guarding PGs, and the first part of your sentence is true for every shooter in this league, that doesn't make them less valuable.

With the contract he's looking for/going to get (possibly), yes, to an extent.

Take Ray Allen or Michael Redd for example, they have more solid games, than they do have where they just completely flat out suck (just throwing this out, granted I've seen these 2 have fewer 'crap' games, than I've seen Gordon). -- IISC, we had a thread about this a few months ago, where you had players such as Ray Allen and Michael Redd have a better +/- impact for their teams, even when they had 'bad shooting nights'

Well, I don't know about Ray Allen, but Redd isn't exactly a shooter, and he's certainly not helping if he's not scoring, and with a 90/6 contract to boost. Ray Allen is the closest example to BG, if you take Gordon's stats from the 2 years before this one (which was a colossal failure for everyone in Chicago), his stats are pretty close to Ray Allen.

I think Gordon would do well in the Triangle

I think both players are solid number 3 options on a good playoff team. Deng can be a solid number 2 option but I don't see him being an allstar. I can see Gordon having a "Manu Ginobilli" role with a contender off the bench. I don't think he is most effective as a starter. They are both complimentary players. The Bulls would best be served in trading or signing a player like Elton Brand and have him surrounded by players like Deng and Gordon. You can't have your top players are outside shooters*. They are going to have bad shooting nights if there isn't a low post player to spread the floor.

I don't see Gordon as a defensive liability. He's quick and can get up on his man. His only problem in that regard is his size, and unless he's up against a tallish SG with post skills, that's not a killer. The Bulls just have far worse team defence this year, a lot less communication on that end, so a player like Gordon is necessarily going to look worse. While he'd be ideal next to a taller PG so he could guard the opposing PG, he's not such a disaster. I don't think he's worth the max but he is worth some good coin and I'd gladly take him on the Raptors.

Deng, I love. I'd rather have him but then again, I'd rather have him than a lot of guys. Good inside to mid-range scorer, good rebounder, good defender. I'd pay him more than Gordo nbut not necessarily the max.

Put one or both with a franchise big man and you're off to the races.

This thread should hold off until we watch Deng next year, wherever he may be. This season's version of him is a lot different to last year's.

I like both players but I really like Deng. This guy brings it on both ends and keeps his mouth shut. If Chicago had a better frontline you would see how good this guy is. He plays hard and willingly plays defense.

I also like Ben Gordon and when he was drafted I knew he would be good. But I dont like size. Esp on defense. I just don't believe in undersized teams playing sound defense and that is exactly what the Bulls are. They need inside scoring and a new PG.

GETTING RID OF DENG OR THOMAS IS THE WORST MISTAKE YOU GUYS COULD MAKE.

_SRV_ wrote:Well, I don't know about Ray Allen, but Redd isn't exactly a shooter, and he's certainly not helping if he's not scoring, and with a 90/6 contract to boost. Ray Allen is the closest example to BG, if you take Gordon's stats from the 2 years before this one (which was a colossal failure for everyone in Chicago), his stats are pretty close to Ray Allen.

Redd isn't a shooter?

Deng and Gordon for Tmac..

obinna wrote:I like both players but I really like Deng. This guy brings it on both ends and keeps his mouth shut. If Chicago had a better frontline you would see how good this guy is. He plays hard and willingly plays defense.

I also like Ben Gordon and when he was drafted I knew he would be good. But I dont like size. Esp on defense. I just don't believe in undersized teams playing sound defense and that is exactly what the Bulls are. They need inside scoring and a new PG.

GETTING RID OF DENG OR THOMAS IS THE WORST MISTAKE YOU GUYS COULD MAKE.

Why the hell would you name yourself after Obinna Ekezie?

Agree with Sham, the Deng we saw this year and the Deng we saw last year are totally different.

Gordon has just been less consistent this year, last year he was fairly consistent. I also think he gets underrated defensively vs PGs. He's come quite far since his rookie year.

They are Team England.

Rooster wrote:I don't see Gordon as a defensive liability. He's quick and can get up on his man. His only problem in that regard is his size, and unless he's up against a tallish SG with post skills, that's not a killer. The Bulls just have far worse team defence this year, a lot less communication on that end, so a player like Gordon is necessarily going to look worse. While he'd be ideal next to a taller PG so he could guard the opposing PG, he's not such a disaster. I don't think he's worth the max but he is worth some good coin and I'd gladly take him on the Raptors.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Gordon would be perfect on the same backcourt as Kidd.