White/Black Athlete Debate

[Flash3]

Over the past few weeks I've been reading a lot on the subject of the white athlete vs. the black athlete -- Most notably the type of player Tyler Hansborough could eventually become, or not, because of his skin color.

A few articles were saying it shouldn't matter of the skin color, because an athlete is an athlete, but not really, IMO. -- Yes, skin color shouldn't make a difference, but when you take a sample of some of the best players in the league today, they are black. Yes, they are some good white ones, but those are more European, South American, and non-American white players.

Also, I read a piece that said something along he lines of: over the past 15 years or so, you've had more white (American) big men (Cs/PFs), be nothing in the nba after being drafted, than you've had black players; granted they didn't say what picks, where they were selected, and in what round. -- (IDK how they did that analysis)

IMO, if you have a white player and a black player who basically play the same (statistics, position, game type, etc), a team will more than likely draft the black player over the white player, just because of what has become as of late with white american players. -- Is that a fair point?

Now, I am NOT saying you don't have black players selected high in drafts always panning out and becoming what they were supposed, nope!

Just want to get the point of view from others, and their thoughts, as well.

[Bgil]

IMO, if you have a white player and a black player who basically play the same (statistics, position, game type, etc), a team will more than likely draft the black player over the white player, just because of what has become as of late with white american players. -- Is that a fair point?

Tell that to Bogut, Darko, Morrison, and Bargnani. There always seems to be some GM fantasy that the white guy will overcome all his athletic disadvantages and become the next Larry Bird or Dirk.

Looking at the draft history, the last white guy selected in the top 5 that wasn't massively overrated or a total bust was Gasol in 2000.

there's defintely a genetic difference between the races through. Did you know, athletes of West African descent have run the 100 meter dash under 10 seconds over 400 times in competition and NO ONE of any of the descent has ever done it?
the same can be said of black people and swimming. Apparently the heavier bones make us less boyant.

[magicfan4life05]

this is what SVG has to say about it.....NOW YOU DECIDE

Along with Memphis' poor foul shooting and Stephen Curry's coming-out party, one of the major themes of this year's NCAA Tournament was the media coverage of North Carolina's Tyler Hansbrough.

With Dick Vitale, who actually said Hansbrough has displayed more "desire'' than any college player he's ever seen, and others praising him so lavishly, some wondered aloud if Psycho-T was being over-hyped because he's white. Others chastised those who wondered aloud for playing the race card.

Well, Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy had an interesting take on the matter when he appeared on "The Boog Sciambi Show'' on 790 AM radio in Miami last Friday.

Making some refreshingly honest comments about race, Van Gundy said the fawning over Hansbrough had indeed gone to ridiculous extremes because he's white.

Here's the uncut dialogue:

Sciambi: "Would they (the media) use the same adjectives to describe him (Hansbrough) if he were black?''

SVG: "Well, probably not. But I think there's two things going on there. Well three. Let's give the guy his due. He plays the game well and he plays it hard okay. With no hyperbole he does do that, so let's start there.

"But then the second and third factors I think definitely you hit on it, there's the racial thing. People go crazy over white players. They tend to assign character qualities to them rather than just good play. And then the third thing is the emotion. He plays with a lot of emotion. You know, he's jumping up and down, he's all over the place and for whatever reason when fans see that they think that equates to a greater desire to win than a guy, let's say, that plays like Tim Duncan played even in college. Who just sort of pretty even keeled, doesn't show a lot of emotion but just keeps playing well and getting the job done.

"For whatever reason fans, media, whoever, equate the show of emotion with a greater desire to win and I think its B.S. But I think it happens so I think there's that on top of the racial issue."

Sciambi: "Don't numbers two and three tie together because aren't, in a lot of instances, isn't the white public or media offended at times by the show of emotion when it's a black guy? If its Chad Johnson dancing to show emotion, 'Hey wait a second, we don't like that so much.'''

SVG: "That's a great point. I mean I do think that happens a lot. 'The black guy has no class, but the white guy's playing with fire.' I don't think there's any question about that."

Who knew Stan Van Gundy had read "The Autobiography of Malcolm X"?

But seriously, I thought Van Gundy's comments were very insightful, and I agree with them completely.

Hey, I have absolutely no problem with white fans wanting to see white players succeed in basketball. And I don't have a problem with them pulling for a player just because he's white. After all, I pull for Tiger just because he's black, or should I say Cablanasian.

What I have a problem with is the difference in the way folks interpret the actions of white and black players. Like Van Gundy said, "the black guy has no class, but the white guy's playing with fire.'' I also loved Van Gundy's line about people assigning "character qualities'' (always positive) to white players.

How many times has a black player been criticized for showing emotion: beating his chest, raising his arms to the rafters, or screaming, after a dunk; or doing a little dance or a wiggle after making a play?

That's just emotion, but too often, it's criticized as "showboating'' or "bad sportsmanship.''

Yet when Hansbrough shows emotion, its "desire.''

Here's the other point about Hansbrough:

How will he do in the NBA?

I always wonder about undersized post players. I think, "Will he be the next Larry Johnson or the next Tractor Traylor?''

Remember how dominant Corliss Williamson was in college? Michael Sweetney? Byron Houston? Marcus Fizer?

If an undersized post player doesn't have tremendous explosion and long arms, he could have trouble in the NBA. And Hansbrough doesn't have either.

I'd love to have him on my NBA team -- but as a role player off the pine.

After all, he does play with great heart and desire. Just like a lot of black players.

this is not insider!!


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/ind ... sard_chris

[crzy]

In a perfect world, skin color wouldn't matter. But this isn't a perfect world. Everyone is a little bigoted. That's why Mike Dunleavy and Keith Van Horn are compared to Larry Bird coming into the league, instead of black athletes they might be more comparable to.

The lack of white American stars in this league certainly doesn't help to assuage the negative stereotypes surrounding white American basketball players. Neither does the epic failure of recent hyped up white prospects like Adam Morrison or JJ Redick.

It's like Larry Bird said, the NBA needs, wants, a white superstar.

[dacher]

Nash, Dirk, Ginobli, Yao


It's a meritocracy. If you don't deserve to be a star, you aren't, if you do, you are. If you do, you are. American non-blacks aren't doing too well on the list. Maybe there needs to be special developmental programs to encourage more American non-black youths to play more basketball. Similar to Tiger Wood's golf schools for inner-city kids. :shrug:

[nate33]

I agree that Hansbrough and other white players get more hype because they are white. I think it's an underdog thing more than anything else. Black players dominate the game so much, that it's fun to root for the white guy just to challenge the status quo. I don't know if it's really all that different from the way most of us rooted for Davidson against Kansas.

I disagree about the emotion thing. I think fans like guys who play with emotion no matter what their race. Guys like Kevin Garnett and don't consider him "classless" just because he plays with emotion.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Black are genetically gifted in terms of athleticism which is why some of the black athletes who might not have great basketball skills can get by based on how gifted they are athletically. You can teach skill but elite athleticism is something majority of the white NBA athletes aren't gifted with.

[UGA Hayes]

I agree with the overall criticism of how certain players are characterized by broadcast types, but I'm not sure its fair in regard to Hansbourough on two fronts. One, in his case his motor probably actually is as good as any player I've seen. Two I think Hansbourough is actually an above avg athlete for his size. His problem is that he has painfully short arms.

[the sea duck]

white players are often attributed with more basketball intelligence, as well.

i think it is mostly because people generally know that white players aren't as athletic, and so they try to explain the success and value of the top white players by saying essentially "what they lack in athletic ability, the make up for in other areas (attitudes, desire, intelligence etc.).

[floris_]

Black are genetically gifted in terms of athleticism which is why some of the black athletes who might not have great basketball skills can get by based on how gifted they are athletically. You can teach skill but elite athleticism is something majority of the white NBA athletes aren't gifted with.

I am having a hard time believing that white people are less athletic than black people. Certainly not on the scale that you see in the current NBA.

As for media coverage of white players. That's not really a surprise given that most reporters are white themselves and the audience (mainly white) wants to identify with an athlete of his own race. I am sure that in 25 years time there are as many black reporters as white ones. These things just take a few generations.

[JustMagic]

white players are often attributed with more basketball intelligence, as well.

i think it is mostly because people generally know that white players aren't as athletic, and so they try to explain the success and value of the top white players by saying essentially "what they lack in athletic ability, the make up for in other areas (attitudes, desire, intelligence etc.).

This one actually makes alot of sense and it's usually right.
Most white players in the NBA are below avg athletes for their position.
To play in the NBA without being athletic you need other advantages: Yao has his height, some are realy realy good shooters, but obviously for someone like Nash with his athletic abilities you have to be realy smart, hard working, hight basketball IQ etc... to be where he is now.

I doesn't mean white=smarter.

[Chessboxer]

IMO, if you have a white player and a black player who basically play the same (statistics, position, game type, etc), a team will more than likely draft the black player over the white player, just because of what has become as of late with white american players. -- Is that a fair point?

Tell that to Bogut, Darko, Morrison, and Bargnani. There always seems to be some GM fantasy that the white guy will overcome all his athletic disadvantages and become the next Larry Bird or Dirk.

Looking at the draft history, the last white guy selected in the top 5 that wasn't massively overrated or a total bust was Gasol in 2000.

there's defintely a genetic difference between the races through. Did you know, athletes of West African descent have run the 100 meter dash under 10 seconds over 400 times in competition and NO ONE of any of the descent has ever done it?
the same can be said of black people and swimming. Apparently the heavier bones make us less boyant.

Yeah there is a genetic difference. Runners World magazing once had an article on this. Black people have a higher proportion of fast twitch muscle fibers (the type associated with speed, explosiveness etc) and white people have a higher proportion of slow twich muscle fibers, and therefore a lot white people tend to be great distance runners

The fast twitch muscle fibers give a huge advantage in sports like basketball, football, etc.

I have heard about the bone density thing as well, and why there are few prolific black swimmers.

[gusman]

How can you argue this?? There is a reason why black people dominate basketball

[Flash3]

IMO, if you have a white player and a black player who basically play the same (statistics, position, game type, etc), a team will more than likely draft the black player over the white player, just because of what has become as of late with white american players. -- Is that a fair point?

Tell that to Bogut, Darko, Morrison, and Bargnani. There always seems to be some GM fantasy that the white guy will overcome all his athletic disadvantages and become the next Larry Bird or Dirk.

Looking at the draft history, the last white guy selected in the top 5 that wasn't massively overrated or a total bust was Gasol in 2000.

there's defintely a genetic difference between the races through. Did you know, athletes of West African descent have run the 100 meter dash under 10 seconds over 400 times in competition and NO ONE of any of the descent has ever done it?
the same can be said of black people and swimming. Apparently the heavier bones make us less boyant.

Well, Darko & Bargnani aren't white american born players, though I think Bogut is Australian, but did go to school here in the US.

[ImmortalD24]

-= original quote snipped =-

Well, Darko & Bargnani aren't white american born players, though I think Bogut is Australian, but did go to school here in the US.

I thought Bogut was Croatian.

[kooldude]

-= original quote snipped =-



I am having a hard time believing that white people are less athletic than black people. Certainly not on the scale that you see in the current NBA.

As for media coverage of white players. That's not really a surprise given that most reporters are white themselves and the audience (mainly white) wants to identify with an athlete of his own race. I am sure that in 25 years time there are as many black reporters as white ones. These things just take a few generations.

are you blind?

[Flash3]

-= original quote snipped =-

I thought Bogut was Croatian.

I think you're right....

Bogut was born to Croatian immigrants in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. As a 15-year-old, he was cut from the Victoria junior state representative team. That experience apparently drove him to improve; he later went on to attend the Australian Institute of Sport. In his last season at AIS, he averaged 29 points and 14.5 rebounds. He went on to lead the Australian team that won the 2003 FIBA Junior World Championships, and was named the tournament MVP.

[Flash3]

It might not be fair, but it's just that way when it comes to black athletes being seen as more athletic; and you might have certain GMs take a flyer on a black athlete, over a white athlete, just because of that bust factor the league has seen with white players, in general.

[floris_]

-= original quote snipped =-



are you blind?

There are more reporters than the ones you see on TNT or ESPN.

[ilikecb4]

Lets just face it....most North American white players suck

the good ones are international players

Nash, Peja, Ginobli, Nowitski, Biedrins, i can go on and on

North American white players is like Mike Dunleavy, JJ Redick, Adam Morrison...

most of these guys were drafted too high when in reality they'll never be solid NBA players

Morrison is a big time bust, and the hair doesn't help