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Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:51 am**

http://realgm.com/src_fromtherafters/15 ... e_players/

I was reading this from the wiretaps and thought it was pretty neat.

The guy using a Hands on Bucket, meaning on how much involvement a player has on made baskets brought this amazing stat to rate the Most Valuable Offensive Player.

1. Chris Paul - 49.2 HOB%

2. LeBron James - 46.0 HOB%

3. Deron Williams - 43.4 HOB%

Check the article out.

Christopher Reina wrote:During the 2007 baseball season, I created a little stat called Hands On Runs or HOR, which is a simple to understand statistic that is indicative of how much weight a player carries within the framework of his offense.

There are two hands involved with every run scored; one from the runner scoring and one from the batter who drives in the run.

In order to calculate the percentage of runs a player has a hand in, I add the run total with the RBI total, then divide by the amount of runs their team has scored, and finally divide by two in order to get a percentage.

I have transferred the concept of the statistic over to basketball for what is called Hands On Buckets, or HOB. With this stat, we add the field goal total of a player to his assist total and then divide by the overall number of field goals a team has made in order to get a percentage of buckets a player helped make over the course of a season.

John Stockton's 90-91 season in which he made 496 field goals and dished 1,164 assists giving him a 51.6 HOB%, is the best such season in NBA history. This is better than Michael Jordan's 88-89 when he had a 46.9 HOB%, or Oscar Robertson's 48.6 HOB%, even Wilt Chamberlain's 63-64 in which he had a 47.2 HOB%...

...I'm still not losing any sleep overwwho wins the MVP, but Chris Paul's 49.2 HOB% is right behind Stockton's best total while LeBron James isn't too far behind.

LeBron's 46% is doubly extraordinary since he is not a point guard and has also missed six games. He had a 48.0 HOR% last year while playing in 79 games.

Deron's 43.4% is yet another confirmation that he is an elite point guard.

Nash is decidedly not in the MVP picture, but he is as important to their offense as ever.

Kobe had a better output in this stat during the 02-03 season when he had a 43.6 HOR%.

He provides this table:

Team Leaders For 2007-2008 Season

Joe Johnson, Hawks: 38.0%
Paul Pierce, Celtics: 30.3%
Raymond Felton, Bobcats: 33.2%
Kirk Hinrich, Bulls: 27.0%
LeBron James, Cavaliers: 46.0%
Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks: 29.4%
Allen Iverson, Nuggets: 39.3%
Chauncey Billups, Pistons: 31.3%
Baron Davis, Warriors: 37.6%
Tracy McGrady, Rockets: 30.9%
Mike Dunleavy, Pacers: 26.0%
Corey Maggette, Clippers: 23.3%
Kobe Bryant, Lakers: 37.9%
Rudy Gay, Grizzlies: 25.7%
Dwyane Wade, Heat: 29.6%
Michael Redd, Bucks: 30.4%
Al Jefferson, Timberwolves: 27.5%
Vince Carter, Nets: 34.1%
Chris Paul, Hornets: 49.2%
Jamal Crawford, Knicks: 33.0%
Hedo Turkoglu, Magic: 31.4%
Andre Miller, Sixers: 37.1%
Steve Nash, Suns: 41.1%
Brandon Roy, Blazers: 33.0%
Tony Parker, Spurs: 30.6%
Earl Watson, Sonics: 27.4%
Jose Calderson, Raptors: 33.4%
Deron Williams, Jazz: 43.4%
Caron Butler, Wizards: 25.2%

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:57 am**

His Hands on Runs stat and Hands on Bucket stats are tremendously flawed.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:51 pm**

i think its just a glorified way of telling us who has the ball in their hands the most and it fails at that too cos it doesnt take into account the amount of games played, let alone the minutes played.

it also seems to ignore big men (apart from dirk and al jefferson)

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:57 pm**

deron williams mvp :rofl2:

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:01 pm**

I already knew that point guards average a lot of assists before looking at that stat. :lol:

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:50 pm**

HOB ---> Holding onto Ball

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:08 pm**

Interesting stat...should not be directly linked to MVP/offense as if it measures everything that happens on offense.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:09 pm**

Rampage wrote:His Hands on Runs stat and Hands on Bucket stats are tremendously flawed.

Isn't any stat for that matter? PER, TS% etc.

You can make a stat say or not say (for this matter) anything you want or don't want.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:24 pm**

Doctor MJ wrote:Interesting stat...should not be directly linked to MVP/offense as if it measures everything that happens on offense.

Yup. Offensive rebounding, turnovers, scoring efficiency etc. aren't even in the equation so it's not a stat that should be looked at to determine offense as a whole.

The only thing I really get out of this stat is a stamp on the theory that perimeter players average more assists than front court players, which I kind of knew before.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:33 pm**

tkb wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yup. Offensive rebounding, turnovers, scoring efficiency etc. aren't even in the equation so it's not a stat that should be looked at to determine offense as a whole.

The only thing I really get out of this stat is a stamp on the theory that perimeter players average more assists than front court players, which I kind of knew before.

Well what I will say is that the *fact* that perimeter players average more assists than front court players is something everyone should really think about in evaluating both types of players offensively. Perimeter players are the guys front courters are dependent upon so that they can have their impact. It is for this reason that when I rate the best offensive players in the game at any time, the top of the list will generally be dominating by perimeter players.

But yeah...should not be taken so literally as this.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:33 pm**

Well, it shows who runs the offense bests and also scores. I think offensive rebounds are useless if you don't convert them to buckets.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:49 pm**

Duiz wrote:Well, it shows who runs the offense bests and also scores.

Therefore, this stat is only (marginally) useful for measuring point guards or primary ball handlers. Even then, it is more a measure about the relative importance of a player to his team as opposed to how good a player is relative to each other.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:50 pm**

nyu3 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Therefore, this stat is only (marginally) useful for measuring point guards or primary ball handlers.

Exactly.. valuable offensive players. I am not talking about All-NBA or MVP awards here people. I am talking about the most offensive players in the league, and you have a proof of the top three right there.

I was shocked not to see Kobe in the top 3 actually.

Posted: **Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:58 pm**

It measures the relative importance of a player to his team. So, player A might have higher HOB than player B, but player B can still be the better offensive player.

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