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can Shaquille O'Neal's legacy and all-time ranking be significantly affected by winning a championship as a 3rd option with the Suns? I believe it would..if so, how much higher can he climb up the list with another title, even as a #3?..

No

I got him 8th right now behind KAJ, MJ, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell and the Dream with Duncan 9th and Bryant around 15th.

Depending on what Duncan and Bryant do the coming years, I see Shaq as low as 10th at worst, and as high as 7th at best. Duncan is very likely to pass him on my list. Bryant might, but it's going to be tougher for him than Duncan right now.

Shaq is a Top 10 player regardless, but he's not breaking into the Top 6 (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, MJ) no matter what happens. I'd rank him at #7 right now, and another title would probably make it harder for future/current players to move him off that ranking.

tkb wrote:I got him 8th right now behind KAJ, MJ, Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell and the Dream with Duncan 9th and Bryant around 15th.

Depending on what Duncan and Bryant do the coming years, I see Shaq as low as 10th at worst, and as high as 7th at best. Duncan is very likely to pass him on my list. Bryant might, but it's going to be tougher for him than Duncan right now.

my ranking is MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird and Russell as the top level..with Hakeem ahead of Shaq, and Duncan behind him..same as yours..Kobe is 16th for me..

so I'd say Shaq could move up ahead of Dream with another title(depending on Shaq's playoff performance)..Duncan moves up ahead of Shaq with another title IMO..Kobe still has unlimited potential to move up, since the Lakers appear to be looking dominant for the future(barring more Bynum injuries)..Kobe could finish in the top 5 with 3 more titles as a #1..

id still put him in the top 5 centers category.

i dont think he really changes positions even IF he won another ring.

BirdIsDaKing wrote:i dont think he really changes positions even IF he won another ring.

+1

Hes no less than a Top 10 player all-time. And thats certainly a damn good accomplishment.

He's easily one of the top 10 players of all time. And probably a top 4 C.

It wouldn't hurt if he were to win another obviously, looking back at him and seeing that he has 4 rings is a great accomplishment already, 5 is amazing too.

I keep the smae postion now as i did when he was a laker. for as domininant as he was, with a better work ethic to improve his game and stay in shape during the off-season, he would have been the GOAT. instead he is just a top 10 all time player, which is certainly not bad at all, i just feel he had so much mroe potential than what he tapped into.

HarlemHeat37 wrote:can Shaquille O'Neal's legacy and all-time ranking be significantly affected by winning a championship as a 3rd option with the Suns? I believe it would..if so, how much higher can he climb up the list with another title, even as a #3?..

Winning rings only get you in the top 10 when they are won as the best player or perhaps depending on how many you have as the 2nd best player on the team.
Winning as the 3rd best player doesn't move you up on the list by any means.

It doesn't hurt, it shows that even in lesser roles, he can adapt and do what is needed of him in order for his team to win.

I think he's the best player right outside of that holy six.

JordansBulls wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Winning rings only get you in the top 10 when they are won as the best player or perhaps depending on how many you have as the 2nd best player on the team.
Winning as the 3rd best player doesn't move you up on the list by any means.

I disagree with that. Shaq has already proven he can win as a #1 3 times, and he's proven he can win as a #2.

This Suns team has been great for a while now and hasnt won anything. If Shaq can get them over the hump and deliver a championship, that can do nothing but enhance his legacy.

If he wins it with the Suns, it will be the 3rd different team he's won a championship with...has anyone ever done that?

If he gets to the Finals, it will be the 4th different he's been to the Finals with...has anyone ever done that?

I'm always hesitant to put players from a long time ago so high on the all time greats list. How great were Chamberlin and Russell? How great would they be today? Would Shaq be considered the greatest player of all time if he played way back then?

It's questions like these that always make me lean on the side of more modern players.

JB-I agree with you that it should be mainly focused on #1 and slightly on #2, but like NO said, this would just add to his legacy of being a winner and doing whatever it takes to win..

that would make FOUR different franchises that went to the finals, where Shaquille was a major contributor..Orlando didn't win, but they still got there..Shaq was #1 in LA..he wasn't in Miami, but he was a major contributor overall..

with the Suns, he would be the key component for a team that couldn't make it all the way to the finals, despite being considered one of the best every year..that's big IMO, because it shows how significant Shaq's impact is no matter what, even now, where he's clearly past his prime..

I don't think it would change his all-time rankings, but given the perception of Shaq as lazy and often unmotivated, winning a title with a third team would definitely cement his impact on the game.

It will be huge, him and Duncan are close. But I think the impact Shaq has/had on the game was significantly more than any player playing today. The only other two players are Duncan and Bryant and I do not see either specifically Bryant passing Shaq.

What Shaq has brough to the table since he has been in the league is amazing. Finals appearances with 4 different teams if he were to make it this year, if they win its 3 different franchises he has been a significant part of helping them win.

Nobody touches that, the only players I clearly take over Shaq is Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell. He is number 6 in my book.

Anticon wrote:I don't think it would change his all-time rankings, but given the perception of Shaq as lazy and often unmotivated, winning a title with a third team would definitely cement his impact on the game.

And cement that perception of him being lazy. He took the first half of the season off.

i'll say right now that i only started watching the NBA during shaq's rookie season (longer than most of the board, but there are still a decent amount who have been watching longer)

why is it generally accepted that he will never pass bird/magic? They were both great players but also had great teams around them. I don't want to say they're overrated but it seems like they are completely untouchable.

Although shaq has had a top perimeter player to play with, he has made the game a lot easier for them too. even an old fat shaq is making amare play a lot better.

what would shaq have to do to pass magic/bird? he has 4 championships which is more than bird already and could potentially put a team that was close over the hump for his 5th. and although he wouldn't be the focal point he's enough of a game changer at 36 (or 37?) to get them there. that's very impressive to me.

i'm not even calling out bird/magic but if someone who was old enough to understand the game (not a 15 year old whose seen clips) at the time help me understand why bird/magic are considered at a level so much higher that they untouchable.

pewing33ny wrote:i'll say right now that i only started watching the NBA during shaq's rookie season (longer than most of the board, but there are still a decent amount who have been watching longer)

why is it generally accepted that he will never pass bird/magic? They were both great players but also had great teams around them. I don't want to say they're overrated but it seems like they are completely untouchable.

Although shaq has had a top perimeter player to play with, he has made the game a lot easier for them too. even an old fat shaq is making amare play a lot better.

what would shaq have to do to pass magic/bird? he has 4 championships which is more than bird already and could potentially put a team that was close over the hump for his 5th. and although he wouldn't be the focal point he's enough of a game changer at 36 (or 37?) to get them there. that's very impressive to me.

i'm not even calling out bird/magic but if someone who was old enough to understand the game (not a 15 year old whose seen clips) at the time help me understand why bird/magic are considered at a level so much higher that they untouchable.

I completely agree with that. Magic/Bird get extra points because they saved the league when it was at it's lowest point. But Magic went to a stacked team throughout his whole career. Bird was on a stacked team and his back injury curtailed what he would have shown as a secondary player. Magic and Bird never had to go through the decline of skills period that most athletes have to experience. Magic retiring and Bird getting injured.

Shaq is top 5 all time for me. He would be dominant on any team, any era, any style. Can't say that about Magic if he would have gotten drafted to the Utah Jazz. What if Bird was drafted by the Atlanta Hawks? Would he still have 3 MVP's? Would Magic have won 5 titles? Would there even have been a Bird/Magic rivalry?

Shaq is making a difference on his 4th different team. He is the reason anyone is even giving the Suns a chance to go all the way........

pewing33ny wrote:i'll say right now that i only started watching the NBA during shaq's rookie season (longer than most of the board, but there are still a decent amount who have been watching longer)

why is it generally accepted that he will never pass bird/magic? They were both great players but also had great teams around them. I don't want to say they're overrated but it seems like they are completely untouchable.

Although shaq has had a top perimeter player to play with, he has made the game a lot easier for them too. even an old fat shaq is making amare play a lot better.

what would shaq have to do to pass magic/bird? he has 4 championships which is more than bird already and could potentially put a team that was close over the hump for his 5th. and although he wouldn't be the focal point he's enough of a game changer at 36 (or 37?) to get them there. that's very impressive to me.

i'm not even calling out bird/magic but if someone who was old enough to understand the game (not a 15 year old whose seen clips) at the time help me understand why bird/magic are considered at a level so much higher that they untouchable.

Magic and Bird made those teams. To suggest they were stacked before hand is gross exageration. Kareem hadnt played in WCF for the Lakers before Magic and the Celtics were horrible.

The Laker team that Magic joined was about on par with the Rockets w/o Tmac. The Celtics were about as good as the Heat before the tanking. The Celtics added Bird and there injured players and went to the ECF. The Lakers added Magic and won the title.

So IMHO Magic won the title with about the same talent (vs his peers) as the Rockets do today when healthy.

Bird joined a injured team w/o its star C and PG and procceded to bring them back to contender much like a Beasley joining the Heat next yr.

Bird has 3 straight MVPs and 3 titles.
Magic has the assts records and 5 titles.

You have to understand that Magic already had 2 rings before Worthy was drafted and that the Celtics were contenders before McHale/Parrish. Those players might have been very good but theres a good chance neither would be top 50 players w/o Magic/Bird.

In a NBA with Kareem, Mosses, DrJ, MJ, Isiah, Charles, Nique, English, Stockton, Malone, Drexler, King, Dantley ect these 2 players dominated and embarrased.