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Flashback with me to July of 1994, during a time when the Chicago Bulls were fresh off an impressive 55-win season. This was impressive in that this was done with Michael Jordan retired and off playing baseball. He was basically the only subtraction from the 1993 Championship team. Scottie Pippen was in his prime, and so were fellow 1994 All-Stars Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong.

This team was super-deep, with a still productive Bill Cartwright being backed up by a then unknown Luc Longley (who would go on to start for the next Bulls three-peat).

PG - B.J. Armstrong - Steve Kerr
SG - Pete Meyers - Jo Jo English
SF - Scottie Pippen - Toni Kukoc
PF - Horace Grant - Scott Williams
C - Bill Cartwright - Luc Longley - Will Purdue

Now, I know that Mr. Bill was at the tail-end of his career, so it was understandable. Jerry Krause however had a wonderful nucleus to build around for the future. Why is it that they were unable to keep this core together? From what I know, B.J. was left out to the wolves where Toronto then picked him up, Horace Grant departed to Orlando, and little is known what happened to the rest of those misfits save Steve Kerr.

Here are some of the moves made during that period.

Oct. 20, 1993

When your 72-10 there's really no room for improvement. Dennis Rodman is arguably even better than Horace Grant so it's really a wash whether his impact would have done anything. But i can see where BJ would help, giving them another shooter off the bench. But yea probably a game or two max.

tnayrbrocks wrote:When your 72-10 there's really no room for improvement. Dennis Rodman is arguably even better than Horace Grant so it's really a wash whether his impact would have done anything. But i can see where BJ would help, giving them another shooter off the bench. But yea probably a game or two max.

Arguably?

Dennis was by far the better player. His defense in itself easily made up for Horace's departure and though Rodman wasn't a good scorer, he was a solid passer and was on the offensive glass basically on every missed shot.

There's really no comparison between the two, if you ask me. Dennis was better.

tnayrbrocks wrote:When your 72-10 there's really no room for improvement. Dennis Rodman is arguably even better than Horace Grant so it's really a wash whether his impact would have done anything. But i can see where BJ would help, giving them another shooter off the bench. But yea probably a game or two max.

Rodman was probably a better player and no small reason why they finished 72-10 in 1996. But they didn't know that they would be able to get Rodman when they let Grant leave. In fact, Grant helped the Orlando Magic beat them in 1995, which prompted the Bulls to seek Rodman.

If Grant stays, Rodman never comes in.

Also, there were enough issues with his eccentric personality, you really think he'd be able to handle a role off the bench?

I don't know if Rodman could handle coming off the bench in 1996, but he is an ideal player to come off the bench, he can play PF, C (guarding Shaq even) and even SF. He could still get his 30+ minutes easily as 6th man. He might have been ok with it, since he is the ultimate hard-worker and he knows he isn't going to be in the all-star team. btw he was in the 1990 and 1992 all-star team, played a total of 36 minutes and grabbed 17 rebounds.

Iceburg Slim wrote: Anyways what I'm trying to figure out is why the remnants of that first team broke apart. I mean what was behind all of it? Any knowledgeable fans have any info on that for me?

The issues were

a) Krause
b) players that thought they were more valuable then they were

A team winning 55 games after jordan leaves kind of blows a hole in many peoples theory that jordan won those titles mostly on his own.

But Bulls only made the Conference Semi-Finals that year. Not even close to a Championship.

BRINGTHEPAIN wrote:But Bulls only made the Conference Semi-Finals that year. Not even close to a Championship.

Yeah, but the point was that they won 55 games and got to the second round of the playoffs. Jordan is that missing piece, that superstar (or in his case, legend of the game, lol) that gets that team over the hump.

I think Kosar was just reaffirming that it wasn't Jordan alone that made the Bulls a dynasty. Pippen, and then primary role players over the years like Grant, Rodman, Kerr, Armstrong, etc. deserve their fair share of credit.

Kosar86 wrote:A team winning 55 games after jordan leaves kind of blows a hole in many peoples theory that jordan won those titles mostly on his own.

No one wins titles on their own.

But also, don't ignore that they added Kukoc when MJ left to take up some of the scoring.

MagicMadness wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think Kosar was just reaffirming that it wasn't Jordan alone that made the Bulls a dynasty. Pippen, and then primary role players over the years like Grant, Rodman, Kerr, Armstrong, etc. deserve their fair share of credit.

Who ever sugested otherwise?

All stars aren't given credit?

BJ Armstrong was an all-star? I don't remember that.

Getting Dennis Rodman for Will Purdue. How did the Spurs possibly do that trade? I understand Rodman had problems with the team, but I'm sure they could have gotten more or at least not sent him to a team that had just won 3 Championships. It would have been interesting to see if they could have won even a Championship without Rodman or Horace. It's easily one of the most lopsided trades in history, but it's rarely complained about compared to some other trades.

Celtsfan1980 wrote:Getting Dennis Rodman for Will Purdue. How did the Spurs possibly do that trade? I understand Rodman had problems with the team, but I'm sure they could have gotten more or at least not sent him to a team that had just won 3 Championships. It would have been interesting to see if they could have won even a Championship without Rodman or Horace. It's easily one of the most lopsided trades in history, but it's rarely complained about compared to some other trades.

I remember Rodman openly calling the Spurs out as being soft. He didn't think they were tough enough and was seen as a headcase in SA.

BJ Armstrong had issues with his role being reduced because MJ returned to the team. Horace Grant as well had issues and decided in the media to let everyone know "I want to go to Orlando", and he got his wish too.

Frosty wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Who ever sugested otherwise?

All stars aren't given credit?

Um, other people...? (I used the term "reaffirming".)

You've honestly never heard someone say Jordan was the sole reason the Bulls won titles, without them giving much credit to Pippen, let alone some of the important role players of the Bulls dynasty...? It, uh, happens on this board from time to time.

KDRE wrote:-= original quote snipped =-





I remember Rodman openly calling the Spurs out as being soft. He didn't think they were tough enough and was seen as a headcase in SA.

I understand that, but just about any team could have offered just as much for Rodman. If there's any team that I wouldn't have traded Rodman to, it would be the team with 3 Championships. Jordan scored 55 in one of his first games back, and people claim he was rusty. The Bulls couldn't rebound and that's one of the main reasons they lost to Orlando, not rust. I don't think they would have won one Championship without Rodman. There's conspiracy theories regarding the Garnett trade, but it amazes me that there are none regarding the Rodman trade. Just as lopsided.

Kosar86 wrote:A team winning 55 games after jordan leaves kind of blows a hole in many peoples theory that jordan won those titles mostly on his own.

Im glad some more people can see this. Yea it's true that Pip and the gang won a bunch of titles w/ MJ. But how many titles has MJ won w/o Pip and the gang?

The Bulls era had a Bulls team that was so well formed and balanced and hard working. I have yet to see a team that talented that also puts in hard work. (Denver...I'm looking your way)

BJ Armstrong was an all-star? I don't remember that.

BJ Armstrong was NEVER EVER close to an all-star caliber player but he was voted to the all-star game the season after Jordan's first retirement. The Chicago bandwagon fans across the country voted him in (and you young RealGMers now fear a Chinese mob voting in Yi?)

BJ Armstrong had issues with his role being reduced because MJ returned to the team. Horace Grant as well had issues and decided in the media to let everyone know "I want to go to Orlando", and he got his wish too.

You must not be old enough to remember what happened or it was before you were born. Horace Grant played the full season after MJ's retirement with the Bulls. Orlando signed him as a free agent the season after that to put a PF next to Shaq like Oakley next to Ewing, and Thorpe next to Hakeem.

Jordan came back towards the end of his 2nd year of hims 1st retirement. The Bulls had Ron Harper and by the end of the playoffs when Orlando had eliminated Chicago it was pretty evident that Phil Jackson developed a love for a big guard backcourt with Jordan and Harper in response to Orlando's Penny Hardaway and Nick Anderson backcourt which made BJ Armstrong pretty useless.

Chicago decided not to protect BJ in the expansion draft, who has very popular in Chicago but pretty overrated and as mentioned useless against Orlando who Chicago thought they would have to go through in the playoffs for the next several years. BJ had an ego and thought he could be like KJ without Jordan but was a mediocre player through the rest of his career.

Also note that Chicao had a trifecta of forwards in their prime in, Grant, Pippen, and European seasoned rookie Kukoc in the 1st year Jordan was out and they won 50+ games and made it to the 2nd round. Kukoc was pretty clutch.

The 1994 team that won 55 games was more similar to the second dynasty team than the first. The only difference was that Rodman later replaced Grant. I'd actually might say that Grant was more valuable in the regular season as Rodman only played in 64 55 and then 82 games in his seasons with the Bulls. In 1994-1995 the team without Grant and Jordan was 34-31. Adding a rusty Jordan they went 13-4. So as a comparison, you could say adding Jordan to that team made them go from 55 wins to 72 wins, not 57 from the year before to 55 since Harper, Longley, Kukoc werent on the 93 team.