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How was Payton's role in those years?

Didn't perform as expected on either team.

Not sure what you mean. Payton with the Lakers was a starting PG. He still was very good but he did not fit into the triangle at all. Really the triangle turned him into a spot up jump shooter. I wonder if Payton had to do it again would he had signed with a different contender.

He was almost at the end of his career in Miami. Really just a backup PG. The Heat probably don't win the title without him. He made some big plays and shots in the finals. He was truly a role player at that point of his career though.

Payton was possibly the worst PG Phil Jackson could use.

Payton wanted to do his own thing, and run all around the court dominating the ball. His defense had dropped tremendously, and his outside shooting was shaky (opposite of what is needed of a Laker PG; see Fisher/Sasha).

His role was pretty much to defend, and knock down the open jumpers. Needless to say, he failed tremendously.

WHined a lot about the offense but his most important contribution must be tutoring Kobe on defense. Kobe alluded to that more than once each time he made an all defensive team.

He was that old guy chasing a ring with really diminished skills

Lakers:
He was a starter, and was supposed to be a HoF calibur player even though he was approaching the twighlight of his career. Payton was the only four of the HoFers on the Lakers (Shaq, Kobe, Malone) to play the entire year and not get injured, and times it was kind of sad watching him out there all alone. In the regular season he did pretty good, but that was just playing loose -free basketball. He never wanted to run the triangle, never wanted to learn it, and was just too over-confident in himself.

When the playoffs approached he was butting heads with the coaching staff, and he was playing like crap... especially the finals. He played so poorly in the finals, you can't even begin to explain it. Bad defense, terrible offense, and a disgusting attitude. If he didn't come to the Lakers, and Fisher was the starting point guard all year... the Lakers end up with a finals fight (instead of getting embarrased in a 5game sweep), and possibly come out with the chip.

So basically... GP got away with playing however he felt like in the season, and he performed okay during the season. In the playoffs he was quite possibly one of /if not the worst starters in the playoffs, and easily the biggest dissappointment on the Lakers. I mean he averaged like 7/5/3 in 35minutes to go along with 36FG%. Those are really bad numbers in those kinds of minutes, then add his bad attitude, and you got yourself a mess -- Gary Payton's playoffs is the most underrated aspect when people talk about the 03-04 Laker failures. I hear Kobe the most (who was magnificant, until the finals), and then of course Malones injury, which is a major factor... but Payton's performance is right up there with Malones injury in terms of why the Lakers got embarrassed come finals.


Heat: He was a role player... after the piss poor playoffs in the Laker run, and getting traded to Boston for Mihm (and playing not to well there)... it was sort of expected what your going to get out of him, and most importantly, Payton himself knew that he was no longer a great player (something he thought in LA). So he played as a role player, made some big plays, and contributed positivley to a championship.

better on 2006 heat than 2004 lakers thats all you need to know.

j-far wrote:WHined a lot about the offense but his most important contribution must be tutoring Kobe on defense. Kobe alluded to that more than once each time he made an all defensive team.

please elaborate. by the way, when did you become a mod?? congrats bro!!!!

richboy wrote:Not sure what you mean. Payton with the Lakers was a starting PG. He still was very good but he did not fit into the triangle at all. Really the triangle turned him into a spot up jump shooter. I wonder if Payton had to do it again would he had signed with a different contender.

He was almost at the end of his career in Miami. Really just a backup PG. The Heat probably don't win the title without him. He made some big plays and shots in the finals. He was truly a role player at that point of his career though.

Well if he was indeed chasing a ring and hind sight was 20/20 I don't see why he would choose a team that didn't win the ring that year.....

Was fish on the 2004 lakers? Payton was terrible on the 2004 lakers he was so lost in the triangle.

Part of Payton doing well in his Heat role was his defense against Gordon and Billups.

I really enjoyed him in the limited role he had with Miami, he was a tough and crafty veteran chasing a ring.

COA wrote:Was fish on the 2004 lakers?

Yeah.

Heat Payton = great role player
Laker Payton = poor starter (though mainly because the triangle didn't suit him)

I would almost say the Heat would not have won the Title without Payton making certain clutch shots. However Wade made more clutch shots in those playoffs than anyone ever has, so I guess he would have made them if Payton wasn't there.

Lost Angel wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



please elaborate. by the way, when did you become a mod?? congrats bro!!!!

I wish I could link you to the quote but I believe he said it after a Heat game and once after a All NBA 1st team D selection.

payton needs the ball to be effective on offense

hit the game winner in game 3 of the finals for the heat. other than that he was a good role player for the most part, though he did make you cringe every once in a while.

Bucs80 wrote:How was Payton's role in those years?

Well, his role on the Lakers was to complain about the team not being built around him and kill chemistry.

I remember that 2004 Lakers team starting out VERY hot, something like 10-1? and they were the number one team for quite awhile, until I believe the Kobe injuries, Shaq injuries, Malone injuries started to happen. I think at one point, wasn't he the only uninjured player in the starting lineup?

The 04 Lakers got to the championship on pure talent. That team had little to no chemistry.

CITYOFANGELSX3 wrote:Was fish on the 2004 lakers?

0.4 ?!?!?!?!?!?