Time playing together becoming more and more overrated?

richboy · Post #1 » by **richboy** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:41 pm

I once heard that the Celtics and Lakers were at a disadvantage against the Pistons and Spurs because they had not played together. Now you see a young Laker team with there second best player only been on the club a few months spanking a team with a core of players that have been together for years. The same thing could be said about Boston and Detroit series.

Is time playing together becoming more overrated? Are GMs passing on potential great trades because they want a 4 or 5 man group that is playing together forever like the Pistons and Spurs. Are the Pistons and Spurs great because they have played together for a long time or because there more talented than most of there competition?

Kobay · Post #2 » by **Kobay** » Fri May 30, 2008 8:51 pm

Boston have practiced their arse off during the summer and it showed during the beginning of the season.

lakers on the other hand had Kwame Freaking Brown who literally could not catch a pass, make a dunk, lay up, or block a shot. And replaced by a guy who could do all of those with more. It should be a no surprise.

Manocad · Post #3 » by **Manocad** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:00 pm

Playing together for a long time is a result of playing well together more so than the cause. I doubt there's a single GM in the league that banks on the team playing together longer as being what will get them over the hump, i.e. they would keep an underperforming group together.

Post #4 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:04 pm

I think it's more a function of learning each others games. if you can mesh your game with another easily there shouldn't really be much dropoff. That being said the Lakers and the Celtics just flat out have more talent than the teams they are playing.

The Main Event · Post #5 » by **The Main Event** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:05 pm

I think that both can be effective but it all boils down to the managements ability to put together a team that has clearly defined roles. A team like the Lakers is similar to that of the Spurs becasue each player knows exactly what their role on the team is and therefore is able to excersize their maximum potential. I feel like role ambiguity is one of the most common reasons as to why teams "fail" at winning. Look at the Knicks for example. Alot of talent but it doesn't show at all.

knicksNOTslick · Post #6 » by **knicksNOTslick** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:12 pm

Think of it in terms of playing pickup basketball.

If you know the people there already because you go to that gym alot, then it will be to your advantage. But that doesn't mean that the new guy won't be better acquainted with the people there as you will be. What if he just clicks with the player on his team because their games fit together and they don't mind sharing the ball, etc.

It always depends on the players. The Celtics and Lakers are winning because their players want to win more than anything else. Kobe Bryant wants it more than anybody and that trickles down to his teammates. The Spurs just won last year and they probably didn't want it as bad as Kobe.

The Celtics too are hungry...hungrier than Detroit. Pierce, KG, Allen...all these players are getting up there in age and they definitely want a ring for their legacy.

Post #7 » by **Boss_** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:13 pm

The Knicks could stick together for the next 5 years and theyd still suck.

I think playing time does give an advantage over other new teams..albiet very slight..i think more importantly the front office being in place and the head coach being there while the faces come and go is even more important than the players being together collectively while having coaches come in and out the door..

richboy · Post #8 » by **richboy** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:16 pm

No question that the Bulls, Magic, and Hawks have held this philosophy in the past. As they all have often talked about the Pistons and Spurs.

Whats funny about the Pistons is they won a title the year they brought in two new starters in Tashaun Prince and Rasheed Wallace. I have not yet seen the Pistons match the level of play they had when they first made the Rasheed trade.

B_P · Post #9 » by **B_P** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:16 pm

The meat of this Lakers team has been together of this team for a while now...

Kobe
LO
Walton
Ronny
Sasha
Radmanovic
Fisher (if you wanna count his "time together" with Kobe and Phil in the 3-peat years.)

That core has been together and has gone through some tough playoff wars already. They're not some brand new team with a bunch new new parts that just got put together this year. The core has been around.

These guys have battled it out with PHX two straight years in the playoffs and got very close to taking them out. The mighty "2-time MVP-led" fastbreakin' Phoenix Suns - One offensive rebound and down goes Frazier.

This Lakers team may be young and most have never been this far into the playoffs, but they've had their battles. They've had playoff experiences.

richboy · Post #10 » by **richboy** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:26 pm

Yeah but were talking about adding a key #2 option in the middle of the season. I don't know what the Lakers record is with Gasol in the lineup since that trade but it has to be amazing. Pretty much a team made a trade for 1 player and been the best team in the league since. Pretty much surpassing a lot of teams that had played together for a lot longer.

Kobay · Post #11 » by **Kobay** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:32 pm

^its kwame browen there is no more need for reasoning. Lakers were playing great with young Bynum taking over Kwame. Its not hard replacing Kwame Brown especially for a guy thats been in the league for a while and known to be a smart player in Gasol.

War3player · Post #12 » by **War3player** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:36 pm

These guys have been playing basketball all their lives with many different team mates in all kinds of settings. You don't forget how to make a shot, how to set a screen, how to pass in the post, etc. just because you get a new team mate.

10scott10 · Post #13 » by **10scott10** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:51 pm

I mean the lakers with the exceeption of Pua, have been together for a few years.

I mean the thing with pau, is that he is basically the exact player that the offense was designed to have in it, so he just picked it up.
but kobe, LO, sasha, luke, vlad, farmar, turiaf, bynum, they ahve all been together for a while. and fisher knows the system.

LakerFanMan · Post #14 » by **LakerFanMan** » Fri May 30, 2008 10:26 pm

Being together for a long time definitly helps team chemistry, it's important, talent is just more important.

_BBIB_ · Post #15 » by **_BBIB_** » Sat May 31, 2008 12:14 am

Time playing together as a unit is perhaps overrated.

I think it's more about time playing period.

Experience overall is certainly not overrated and we see that every year in Rookie/Sophmore game

Ryleo-so · Post #16 » by **Ryleo-so** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:41 am

I don't think you can argue the fact that playing together helps, it's one of the main reasons that the pistons are now in their sixth straight eastern finals. That being said, i think almost any GM would give up team unity to pick up garnett, thats just a given.

richboy · Post #17 » by **richboy** » Sat May 31, 2008 2:58 am

The main reason why the Pistons are in there 6th straight East final is because the East sucks and they haven't really played a team in the first 2 rounds capable of beating them in 6 years.

Ryleo-so · Post #18 » by **Ryleo-so** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:27 am

richboy wrote:The main reason why the Pistons are in there 6th straight East final is because the East sucks and they haven't really played a team in the first 2 rounds capable of beating them in 6 years.

Oh yes i agree the east has been extremely weak as of late but i still think it takes a lot of skill to get to the east finals that many times.

KB20 · Post #19 » by **KB20** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:35 am

While time is a great element to have on your side, the reason Pau fit in so well is because his skill set is perfect for the triangle. He stepped in and meshed right away with everyone on the team. Everyone looks really comfortable playing with him and it was like that from the first game he donned the purple and gold.

The Celtics are just all on the same page. When everyone is on the same page and you have a leader like KG then the time factor is pretty fruitless.

Manocad · Post #20 » by **Manocad** » Sat May 31, 2008 3:42 am

richboy wrote:The main reason why the Pistons are in there 6th straight East final is because the East sucks and they haven't really played a team in the first 2 rounds capable of beating them in 6 years.

Translation: "Because they've been one of the best teams in the East."

Way to dig deep there, Captain Obvious.